In the latest CWTI there is an article about the Battle of Antietam.  It contains an AAR from the 23rd NYI.  As I was reading it, I was struck by a comment of how they were resisting a flank attack and as they fell back to let the reenforcements take over they stopped to prepare coffee.

It just struck me as odd, that in the midst of this battle, they decide now is a good time for a cup of coffee..

I am going to go back and finish reading and then re-read the article to make sure I read it correctly..

Anyone else every seen something like this in a AAR?

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lhsnj wrote : I am going to go back and finish reading and then re-read the article to make sure I read it correctly.

Greg,

I read the same article, and you did indeed read it correctly. The mere possibility of getting killed wasn't going to keep those good Yankee boys from their coffee.

Heck, it didn't keep the Texas Brigade from going off to fix breakfast!    

Bill

Thanks for the confirmation..

That would be something to see at an event.. a company back off the line and then start making coffee while the battle rages.  That would throw the spectators for a loop.

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That would be something to see at an event.. a company back off the line and then start making coffee while the battle rages.

Already been done, and done well.  

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Charles Heath wrote : Quote : That would be something to see at an event.. a company back off the line and then start making coffee while the battle rages. Already been done, and done well.

Thanks Charles..
Which event was it done at?

Greg, you really gotta get out more.  

Before the big server crash and subsequent discovery of faulty backups, a huge thread existed on the AC Forum discussing various things people had never seen done before at an event, yet most of those very "wish list" items had been done within the past 36 months, and nearly all within the past 5 years.

Read history, then do it.  I'll see if I still have a paper copy of the AAR published in the Columbia Examiner sometime maybe next week.  It's a hoot.  Rebs bust the scenario. Yanks sit down and make coffee.

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Charles Heath wrote : Greg, you really gotta get out more.   Before the big server crash and subsequent discovery of faulty backups, a huge thread existed on the AC Forum discussing various things people had never seen done before at an event, yet most of those very "wish list" items had been done within the past 36 months, and nearly all within the past 5 years. Read history, then do it.  I'll see if I still have a paper copy of the AAR published in the Columbia Examiner sometime maybe next week.  It's a hoot.  Rebs bust the scenario. Yanks sit down and make coffee.

Actually on some of those wishlist threads I usually don't read them since like you said some of it has been done.

Well I would like to get to more events, but the keeper of the kitchen pass is quite particular about how often it is issued.

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Charles Heath wrote : Greg, you really gotta get out more.   Read history, then do it.  I'll see if I still have a paper copy of the AAR published in the Columbia Examiner sometime maybe next week.  It's a hoot.  Rebs bust the scenario. Yanks sit down and make coffee.

That's hilarious!!

In keeping with the original post:

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/history/vignettes/duty3.html

If you look closely, you can see the little mules on this monument:

http://www.sandusky-county-scrapbook.net/HughesGranite/McKinley.htm

Oddly enough, that happened during the "Cornfield" battle at 140 Antietam.
"Faithful readers, the cornfield battle was the worst travesty of history perpetrated at a reenactment that I had yet seen up to that time in my nine years of reenacting.  Few Federal troops got into the corn; rather, the Rebs charged through the field and out onto “our” side, which is where most of the re-created battle, such as it was, occurred.  Any attempt to represent the historical scenario for the thousands of paying spectators who arrived on-site as early as 4:30 a.m. to watch what they thought would be a depiction of Antietam’s cornfield went right out the window when someone in gray directed hundreds of Rebs to flank the Federal line, get in the Federal rear, and even get in amongst the Federal artillery.  

The “battle” went straight to hell in a handbasket.  The two sides stood toe-to-toe less than thirty feet apart and blasted each other in the face with musketry, with relatively few “casualties” on either side.  It was just plain awful.  Our battalion never got anywhere near the cornfield during the “engagement”.

There was little for us to do, because our brigade commander gave his other battalions much more “trigger time” than us.  We got off a few rounds, but not many.  The men were increasingly disgusted by the affair and soon a small trickle of men began to depart from the left wing of the 29th Massachusetts, which turned into a platoon, then a company, and then three or more companies, all collapsing in rapid succession.  Soon the battalion’s entire left wing had stampeded to the rear, which was a visual treat.  Few reenactors are willing to “play the coward”, which was an all-too-common sight in the real Civil War.  If the Potomac Legion couldn’t participate in a decent battle depiction, at least they could run away from it with style and in a period-correct fashion.  Several comrades from Your Correspondent’s own company skedaddled to the trees behind the Federal artillery line, made a small campfire, and boiled coffee in the manner of Union Army skulkers throughout the Civil War."



In real life, the 51st PA stacked arms and made coffee right after they took Rohrbach bridge at Ant. Their support hadn't come across yet, and the rebs had run away or surrenedered. Except for artillery fire, they had nothing to see and nothing to do. Coffee break.

This is surely the first of a long tradition of Pennsylvania Union work ethic.  

--Last edited by Bill on 2007-08-12 13:10:59 --

Not to go too far down this line, but in reference to the cornfield instance where some group broke the scenario, where were the event organizers? The last event I was in where a group broke the scenario, the next thing you saw was them marching off the field early and none too happy aboput it it seemed. The unit officers are responsible for following the orders of the overall commanders who are accountable to the organizers who generally set the scenario.

Rob,

I wasn't at the Antietam event, but my unit was. This was what I was told about the Cornfield scenario from the other side of the battle line. The guys were ordered forward in the dark. They were told they would run into the Federals about half way across the field. They started moving forward, expecting to run into the Federal infantry at any time, but that didn't happen. At some point, the Federal artillery fired on their right flank and they realized they were actually behind the Federal lines. They started to retreat, but about that time the Federal Infantry showed up on their front and the shooting started. If they were orderd forward too early or the Federals moved too late is anybody's guess. While I understand there was plenty of willful scenario busting to go around at the 140th. Antietam, from what I was told, the screw up at the Cornfield wasn't one of them. My guys were no more happy about the results than your guys were.

On Sunday, there was actually two goofy things that happened on the field across from us. We were lying, in a field, arms stacked, waiting to be ordered in, and, a unit across the field was taunting us, trying to get us to advance or fire. After some time, a gentleman on a horse rode up to them and soon they were moving off.  And, about 2/3rds of the way through our advance, another unit, who also wasn't following the scrïpt, deployed into the "gap" where we were supposed to go. We continued our advance, quietly, through their taunting and firing, and at 10 yards, we were ordered by our battalion commander to "halt" and "kneel." After several minutes, someone on a horse rode up and very unpolitely told them to get the H-E-double toothpicks off of the field. Just like they never existed, we went about our work. I bet the 'taters loved that one.

Bottom line: Officers go to the scenario meeting, know the scenario, and stick to it.

I too have heard my officers behind me pondering what the heck some other unit is doing saying "that's not part of the plan". All this does is screw everyone else on the field up bucause not only are these units doing something contrary to the scenario, they are likely supposed to be elsewhere supporting a part of the scenario that is also going down the tubes becasue they are not there. Now I'm all for some ad libbing as long as the scenario is not broken. For example we were tasked at one event to harrass enemy artillery, we weren't told exactly what to do but to use period tactics.o we flanked the company defending the guns with a sister unit to split their fire and take them out then proceeded to flank the guns while dealing with enemy cavalry. Everyone did their job and was where they were supposed to be but it wasn't exactly scrïpted. Compare that to where we were supposed to be held in reserve at a big event and all of a sudden some yahoo orders his men into battle and makes a silly charge across the field while the overall commanders are screaming to get him back to his position. Meanwhile the enemy unit who is marching into position has no clue what is going on so simply ignores them. What could have been a great scenario endedup looking ridiculous.  

--Last edited by toptimlrd on 2007-08-12 15:08:36 --

Actually, the view from behind the big tree on the hill overlooking the battle was grand, once coffee was in hand. We could see trouble coming for leagues, and no officers could sneak up on us.

The scenario was broken for sure - from my memory, a reb company debauched from somewhere between the Federal artillery line and the spectators on the left, hell the may have gotten out of an RV for all I know. We were screwed, so we ran. Fast. And far.

The funny part is, the rebs looked upset that we didn't turn and refuse that flank. There they were, in a perfect position to whip the Yankee line...and no one would play with them.

These things happen. They shouldn't. Imagine the Macy's Parade with a similar COC, or lack of it. Ugly.

R

Guys,

Funny, this thread seems to be turning into a discussion of scenario busting. I have some knowledge of this subject. I'm the overall Confederate Commander at the annual Neshaminy event. Whatever the defects of the event, we do our level best to insure that scenarios go off as planned. We have meetings. We have walk-throughs. We have period signals, and we have modern radios. It doesn't matter. Things still get messed up from time to time. All it takes is one company commander with his head up his third point of contact screw up a scenario.

I have always said that the most difficult thing we do is an authentic battle scenario. We have to reproduce all the mistakes and blunders that took place during the actual War, without making any mistakes or blunders ourselves; often on land that doesn't match the original.

After five years, I still get about half sick to my stomach before the "battle", worrying about what we forgot or which commander is going to move too fast, too slow, or go too far. It ain't always because someone wants to change history.

There are folks out there, who, participate in and run events who, no doubt, do their best to recreate history. And, those folks don't get enough kudos. All we ever hear about is the bad and ugly, never the good.

Scenario busting is a fact of life. Let's take a quick look at the real CW: How many perfect plans blew up (at Petersburg, literally) in the faces of the planners, and these were professional soldiers?

I didn't mean for this to be about S-busting, nor would I ever suggest that planning a large event is easy. What I would suggest is that when something goes wrong, there should be fast and decisivee remedy on the field. This may require a bigger/better/smarter chain of command/kabuki staff than even the real armies had.

But buried in the original thread is the real jewel of the carpe diem concept: When stuff happend, do what the historical participants would have done when all other options are exhausted. You can't go too much wrong with that.

In our case, we ran like rabbits and stopped to make coffee several hundred yards later. You know what? That was hysterical fun.

RW