Quote :

Do we have any clue what time might have been on those clocks? Time keeping was still a very imprecise science in the 1860's.

Yep. I've done some research on this.

In rural areas, time was generally set by a noon mark cut in a windowsill or doorsill, showing when the shadow was directly north. That was defined as 12 noon.

You could correct that to a more precise time by using an almanac, which would tell you how many minutes to add or subtract, but it was never more than about 15 minutes fast or slow during the year, often only a minute or two, and I suspect that many people didn't bother with that step, since their watch or clock could gain or lose almost as much over a few days.

I haven't done as much research on large cities, but it wasn't unusual there to set your watch by a large public clock. Who set that clock, though? It could still be done the same way by whoever was in charge, the church, government building, bank, etc.

There's a period "comparative time illustrator" which shows up various places. We have it in a repro carriage catalog. It shows a clock face with Washington set at 12:00, and other labelled clock faces of other cities, with their comparative times showing.

Here's a one-step way to set your modern watch to period time:

Go to http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.php and put in the location and modern date when you would have last set your period watch. For example, Sept. 10 2007 Burkittsville gives this result:

Sun transit  1:08 p.m.

That's the line which matters. It means when your modern watch reads 1:08, it's time to set your period watch to 12:00 by the noon mark. Or in other words, you set your modern watch back by 1 hour and 8 minutes.

If you want, you can then adjust by the almanac using this table:

http://home.netcom.com/~abraxas2/eot.htm

But I'd guess that many people didn't bother.

Using that method to calculate, I get results within 1 minute of the different times for U.S. cities on the period "comparative time illustrator," so I figure it's a pretty accurate way to do it.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Guys,

To confuse the issue a little more, Grumpy Dave moved our discussion of time over to the "New to Reenacting" Folder with an excellent guestion, "Who kept time for the Army?".  

From what I've observed from my reading, nobody did; but I'm sure that's wrong, at least in a garrison situation near a big city.    

To get back to the "Numbers Game" What is your unit doing to attract new members or resurrect old members?

The First Battalion has a post in Szabo's "Members" Folder. Funny, we are Mainstream unit that actively promotes attendance at the more authentic events. I would think that would be a drawing card. In actual fact, I think that puts us in the neither fish nor foul category!

My home unit, Company B, 4th. Texas, has had some success getting some new folks at events. We have a new member committee that contacts potential new members, sends them the Recruit's Manual, insures they can get to their first event, and equips them with a complete kit. My guess is  about half our recruits actually stick with the Hobby.  

A “Prospective Member Packet” has been developed.  This thing consists of several documents addressing general information about the modern day unit (to include points of contact,) a list of rules, uniform guidelines, an application, and expectations for entry level privates.

Several copies of this Prospective Member Packet are carried to events.  We don’t beat the bushes for recruits.  If any prospects approach us they are engaged in conversation by a unit member.  If their interest is deemed genuine, one of these packets is placed in their hands.

If the person expresses interest in joining, a member is assigned to this prospective member or vice versa.  The prospect is contacted by telephone and e-mail.  The idea is to get the person uniformed and equipped with loaner items as quickly as possible so they will be able to participate in unit drill.  

Our problem is retention.  Here of late we don’t seem to be getting many people who are truly interested.  What it appears we are dealing with are mostly those who are just casually curious.   That may be because of the appearance we project.  We are sort of a geriatrics type unit.   Basically, the soldiers are a bunch of long in the tooth guys accompanied by a handful of teenagers.  We don’t have many people in their 30’s or 40’s.  Most of ours are in their 50’s and several of us are looking Social Security square in the face.  Put another way, we have members anticipating their drivers license and member’s anticipating Social Security benefits.  There ain’t a whole lot in the middle.

I moved the topic to "Camp Gossip" where it belonged. Senior moment.

I moved the topic to "Camp Gossip" where it belonged. Senior moment.

Hank Trent Posted:
Quote o we have any clue what time might have been on those clocks?

Time keeping was still a very imprecise science in the 1860's.
 





Yep. I've done some research on this.

In rural areas, time was generally set by a noon mark cut in a windowsill or doorsill, showing when the shadow was directly north. That was defined as 12 noon.

You could correct that to a more precise time by using an almanac, which would tell you how many minutes to add or subtract, but it was never more than about 15 minutes fast or slow during the year, often only a minute or two, and I suspect that many people didn't bother with that step, since their watch or clock could gain or lose almost as much over a few days.

I haven't done as much research on large cities, but it wasn't unusual there to set your watch by a large public clock. Who set that clock, though? It could still be done the same way by whoever was in charge, the church, government building, bank, etc.

There's a period "comparative time illustrator" which shows up various places. We have it in a repro carriage catalog. It shows a clock face with Washington set at 12:00, and other labelled clock faces of other cities, with their comparative times showing.

Here's a one-step way to set your modern watch to period time:

Go to http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.php and put in the location and modern date when you would have last set your period watch. For example, Sept. 10 2007 Burkittsville gives this result:

Sun transit  1:08 p.m.

That's the line which matters. It means when your modern watch reads 1:08, it's time to set your period watch to 12:00 by the noon mark. Or in other words, you set your modern watch back by 1 hour and 8 minutes.

If you want, you can then adjust by the almanac using this table:

http://home.netcom.com/~abraxas2/eot.htm

But I'd guess that many people didn't bother.

Using that method to calculate, I get results within 1 minute of the different times for U.S. cities on the period "comparative time illustrator," so I figure it's a pretty accurate way to do it.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Without looking at the spreadsheet, we picked up maybe 8 earlier this year, and dropped 4 or 5 members. The membership has hovered around 40-45 on the roster for 8 years, but using reenactor math that can translate into all sorts of numbers on the field.

We don't get a lot of people off the street. Our biggest inflow comes from guys unhappy with the FMA world seeking something better. Sometimes they like what they find, and other times they find the CPH world is a bit too much work.

Some groups recruit pretty hard within other groups, too. Some do it through the beauty pagent approach, and others just go right into the "rifle robbing" mode. I was reminded of the latter at the Spangler's Spring NPS LH last weekend were folks from other groups just sallied forth into camp and started recruiting participants for their units.  In the polite landscape of the southland, we'd call that "tacky."  I'm sure other words are more appropriate.

What the heck, I'm just in it for the pie.  

Quote :

Charles Heath wrote : Some groups recruit pretty hard within other groups, too. Some do it through the beauty pagent approach, and others just go right into the "rifle robbing" mode. I was reminded of the latter at the Spangler's Spring NPS LH last weekend were folks from other groups just sallied forth into camp and started recruiting participants for their units.  In the polite landscape of the southland, we'd call that "tacky."  I'm sure other words are more appropriate.

Charles,

I can relate. We've had entire companies actively recruited out of the First battalion. We've been hit by both ends of the reenacting spectrum, which in our case, should be expected, I guess.

BTW, I'm using your previous paragraph to start another thread. Hey, a Mod and can do those things!  

Quote :

hanktrent wrote :   I dunno, seems like reveille would vary more widely than that, but would never be before first light during May through August. Not sure what that means, other than that regiment seemed to go by the clock more than the lighting. I agree that taps would always be after sunset. In late June, sunrise would be about 4:45 a.m. (no daylight savings time), with dawn starting about 4:15, so a 5 a.m. reveille would be in sunlight. By the end of August, when sunrise would be about 5:30 a.m. and first light about 5 a.m., reveille would be just at first light. In late December, sunrise would be at 7:30, with dawn at 7, so the darkest winter reveille would be an hour before first light. Hank Trent hanktrent@voyager.net

Michael and Hank:
There are DOZENS of quotes for Boots and Saddles being sounded at well before daylight.......if that isn't up and at 'em at O Dark 30 I don't know what is.....

Bugled Reveille is the signal for Fife and Drum Reveille to start soon thereafter. Often sounded at day break.....often a Morning Gun would be fired and the flag goes up at the fort. Fife and Drum Reveille ending (Three Camps) is the signal to answer at roll call.

Pioneer Call, Guard Mount, Drill Call, Fatigue Call are the signalS for the work day to begin. I do have a quote of a 'cooks' call being used to get the cooks up early to start breakfast....no idea what the call was. Recall brings you back to camp. Dinner is the signal to break at lunch. Retreat Roll Call is the end of the working day. TATTOO is the signal to return to quarters, sometimes it was used for a roll call and serenade/quite time.....but basically you were back in camp. Taps/To Extinguish Lights is the signal for silence in the camps and lights out.....sleeping is optional. The initial words to Taps were a repeated Go to Sleep.....

Quote :

Bill wrote : Guys, To confuse the issue a little more, Grumpy Dave moved our discussion of time over to the "New to Reenacting" Folder with an excellent guestion, "Who kept time for the Army?".   From what I've observed from my reading, nobody did; but I'm sure that's wrong, at least in a garrison situation near a big city.

The Artillery boys, topographical engineers, signal corps, etc. all took sun shots to compute army time. You can take a plate of mercury to create a horizon and take a sextant shot, for example [Breathe Deeply!!!]. Don Erickson, 1st Federal Division Topographical Engineer gives us the time daily at NSA events. Bugler Oliver Norton had 3 watches in various states of repair and trading (he bought and sold them often)....he kept the time for his Brigade, sounded all the calls on his own crook.

We take a time hack at all officer calls to keep the division on the same time....and it's never the same as local DST.

Quote :

lhsnj wrote :    I think the kids camps, school programs and even cooperation between a reenacting unit and youth group is what will help grow the numbers.

I agree. Its time to bring back the old recruiting tactics. Contact your local Boy Scout Council about setting up displays and demonstrations at Jamborees/Camporees, that is a great source of outstanding young men, with active and encouraging parents. Local parades(as much as I hate them) are great for visability as well as county and state fairs. Charitable and civic events such as toys for tots or adopt a highway, serve two purposes. Local Living Histories in public areas, may not be much in the way of historically accurate, but the whole point is to educate and inform. If you can get someone to ask a question, you have gotten their attention and the seed is planted. I have to admit that I fully embraced the "Mess Movement" of the late 90's, I am now seeing the devastating effect it has had on the hobby, while at the same time bringing the quality awareness up quite a bit. I think its time for the messes to come together and form some quality companies, our hobby deperatly needs to bridge the gap between campaigner and mainstream. I have said it before, but I am ready to embrace the next evolution in the hobby, the "hardstream" or "maincore" movements. Its up to us to steer the direction of our beloved hobby. -ELI GEERY

Quote :

plankholder wrote :   I agree. Its time to bring back the old recruiting tactics. Contact your local Boy Scout Council about setting up displays and demonstrations at Jamborees/Camporees, that is a great source of outstanding young men, with active and encouraging parents. Local parades(as much as I hate them) are great for visability as well as county and state fairs. Charitable and civic events such as toys for tots or adopt a highway, serve two purposes. Local Living Histories in public areas, may not be much in the way of historically accurate, but the whole point is to educate and inform. If you can get someone to ask a question, you have gotten their attention and the seed is planted. I have to admit that I fully embraced the "Mess Movement" of the late 90's, I am now seeing the devastating effect it has had on the hobby, while at the same time bringing the quality awareness up quite a bit. I think its time for the messes to come together and form some quality companies, our hobby deperatly needs to bridge the gap between campaigner and mainstream. I have said it before, but I am ready to embrace the next evolution in the hobby, the "hardstream" or "maincore" movements. Its up to us to steer the direction of our beloved hobby. -ELI GEERY

One thing our unit enjoys doing is spectator interaction and even kids drills at most events that allow it.  Whether it be a living history demonstration where we line the kids up and teach them their facings and then march them a bit.  It gives the kids that hands on approach to history and who knows that 8 - 9 year old you just marched around with a quaker musket in the hot sun for about an hour might become the next reenactor beside you in the ranks in 10 years.