This doesn't exactly fit under Captain Doug's post on the mainstream forum, and it really deals with interpretation and not mainstream or c/p/h, so I started a new thread and I'm sticking it here. So there.  

While I don't attend mainstream style events as a participant, I do attend them as a spectator.  What I enjoy is seeing the larger numbers march off to battle, however, that said both before and after the battle they tend to disperse, which is frustrating from a spectator's viewpoint.  Empty camps, or those that are left behind not being approachable enough.   It's like at Buffington's Island spectators could watch them drill, or they could watch the battle (I assume - I didn't go on Sunday), but most of the other time finding reenactors in camp was difficult.  The same with Zoar (don't get me wrong, there were *some* that were approachable and quite knowledgeable, but they were by far the minority).  I can't talk about c/p/h interpretive events because we don't have any of those nearby enough to drive to.

But I also wonder how many spectators have the same problem, but we never hear about it because they don't come on the forums and discuss it.  FWIW, it's not just CW either.  The same goes for the Battle Days at Point Pleasant, WV (Rev War), though there are some guys who came a few years ago (may still, but I haven't been able to attend the last couple of years) who go out of their way to interpret to the public and do a very good job.

When we talk about interpreting is it just during scheduled activities (i.e. drill, battle, mail call, school kids...), or is it in between around the camp as well?  This is an honest question, and is NOT baiting, and I would appreciate civil replies.  

I think that it would be fascinating to have spectator feedback after an event, that would be way  cool, and would show us what where we're weak!  Events that hand out schedules for the reenactment could provide an address on the handout for spectators to give feedback (a forum or something).  If the hobby is primarily about teaching people that would be a cool way of finding out how successful we're really being, though I know that it's also about doing what we enjoy.  But at events where the sponsor wants happy spectators, how do we make ourselves more approachable?  What works for you?

Linda.

Last year as a spectator I happened upon a Rev War small event on the Delaware. It was a crossing related to Washington's but not the same day etc. I saw the Rev War Reenactors all waiting on one side of the Delaware waiting for the long boats to come over. Quite few spectators were present and I asked one Rev War fellow about the event and the history behind it etc etc. He really did not know the history and all the reenactors were too busy laughing and talking among themselves and basically the spectators were ignored. I was quite disappointed.

Linda

I am not sure if this will answer the question you are asking, but in regards to our group we do the following:

At living histories where we have an open camp for people to walk through, we encourage them to look in the tents or sleeping arrangements, hold the weapons (while under supervision), try on a knapsack or someones coat and leather gear.  Most of this is geared towards the kids.  We will show them what is in our haversack or pockets or knapsacks.  

At events where there are battles, if we are drilling we might put someone out at a 4th wall to help interpret what is going on.  And we try after the battles take our time coming off the field to talk to spectators if we can.  At Ridley, we like to head up to the spectator line to talk to people there after the battle so there isn't that lull.  When they wandered into our camps we try to engage them.  

The only time we aren't able to engage a spectator is when we are falling in to march off.  In those few moments before hand, we are getting our equipment on and falling in.  But at that time I think spectators seem to enjoy watching the flurry of activity when they hear commands coming down the line..

Not sure if I addressed what you were asking..

Linda,

My home unit is much like Greg's. We actively promote spectator interaction.

I've noticed a problem at the bigger events. Not many spectators take the time or trouble to visit the camps. I think because they are usually located well away from spectator parking and amenities. A real issue, since most reenactors don't want to be camped next to the sutler area and the funnel cake stands.

In many cases, pure living history seems to work better for spectator education, since both the spectators and reenactors know the whole idea is to visit the camps, not watch a mock battle.  

If your expectations are that the vast majority of reenactors have the capability and/or the purpose of interpreting the history of camp, battle etc to the public, I'm afraid you would be very disappointed.
  "Teaching or Educating the Public" is the big lie many tell themselves and each other is the noble reason behind the hobby and their participation.  Sorry to have to say that but its been my experience that most reenactors dont see spectators as an opportunity to impart knowledge. And thats probably a good thing as I've witnessed a few that did that really need to open a book now and then. Wearing a CW uniform does not make one a historian or NPS park ranger.
  Now there are some groups and individuals that place a premium on interpretive living history and do a fine job.  I wish there were more of them to do the job many others dont or cant do.  

Kent Dorr - Ohio
"Devils Own Mess"

Great topic.

At living histories my company will have one or two "show and tell" stations with someone there who enjoys talking about stuff with spectators.  We didn't plan it that way, it just happened.  One station will usually have sharp shooter weapons and equipment, the other will usually have me and my desk or portfolio.  At Ellicott Mills I made the pleasant discovery that, while the guys often gravitate to the weapons, their girlfriends seem more interested in ink erasers and mechanical pencils.  Go figure.

At mainstream battle reenactments we often find ourselves getting ready to go into the field, cleaning up after getting back, drilling, running off to the sutlers, chatting with friends we haven't seen in a while, and otherwise not making ourselves available to the public.  Plus, in a classic set up like Cedar Creek, we're often remotely located and see few spectators, with most of those being friends or relatives.  

Add to that the fact that some of us don't know all we should or are shy around strangers, and we're not that well set up for the public.  Some units are, but we're not really there yet.

Still, you bring up a very good point and I think that I will suggest to our group that, just as we have people on duty to watch the fire or perform fatigue duties, we ought to have a "designated interpreter" and back up ready to greet any passing spectators and help them understand just what it is we think we're portraying.  

After all, when everything's said and done, it's the history that distinguishes our hobby from just playing guns.  Not that there's anything wrong with just playing...

Quote :

OVVI wrote :  Sorry to have to say that but its been my experience that most reenactors dont see spectators as an opportunity to impart knowledge. And thats probably a good thing as I've witnessed a few that did that really need to open a book now and then. Wearing a CW uniform does not make one a historian or NPS park ranger.

Marc,

Funny, the thread in the Mainstreamer's folder on what Mainstreamers bring to the hobby has drifted into this exact same topic. This a portion of a post I made over there:

"When talking to folks there is no crime in saying those magic words, "I don't know". There is nothing worse that some guy making up stuff, as he goes along, just because he feels he has to answer every question. It also doesn't hurt to say, "This is my opinion, and other folks may have different ideas". Talking about what happened 145 years ago is not a perfect science!"

It is very true that some reenactors have neither the interest  or ability ( Note necessarly the lack of knowledge.) to interpret to spectators. I'm a salesman. I love to talk and I love an audience. For me, talking to the spectators is one of the things I enjoy most about the Hobby. In the units I belong to, the folks like me do most of the talking, but are very right. A lot of people don't feel very comfortable talking to strangers.    

Bill

We do a couple of living histories each year and you can tell by the spectator if they want to get in-depth or just looking for the simple answer.  I have spent everywhere from a couple minutes talking with a person to almost an hour. Discussing things from the camp layout to the battles and even the after the battle actions.  What happened when the armies moved away and stuff like that.  

What information we talk about and how long we talk is determined by our audience.  If they want to know that 4 people slept in a wedge tent and your rifle is a reproduction before moving on, that is all they will ask or stay for.. whereas you find the one who wants to really get more into it.. and those are the really fun conversations.  Sometimes we have had to tag team and give one guy a break because we may have just come back from the battle or drill..

Spectator or visitor? There is a difference.

Quote :

Charles Heath wrote : Spectator or visitor? There is a difference.

What are you seeing as the difference?
To me a spectator is one who watches, while a visitor is one who interacts, is that what you're thinking?

In this case, I mean visitor.  ;)

Thanks,

Linda.  

--Last edited by Linda Trent on 2007-11-09 17:11:31 --

Linda,

This is one of those utterly basic differences taught by the fine folks at the NPS to those who volunteer at their sites.  I'll let some of the living history types explain the difference, as it was explained to us over 10 years ago. The difference is huge, to use a trendy term, and it reflects the fundamental difference between those who come to be entertained (and often pay to do so) and those who have a few clues and want a few more.

Note that I didn't use that trite shield, "educate the public."

What a coincidence, Charles.  This very afternoon I was over at the Katrina devastated headquarters of the Gulf Island National Park, in Ocean Springs, MS.  The National Park Service lady doing the talking did not go into any detail but did mention they divided their visitors into two categories.  Now I wish she had have delved further into it.

Im guessing (and I dont know) that you are talking about the ability of some to break the "wall" that exists between interpreter and audience. Engagement of the moment I'd call it.
 Most reenactors can't or won't embrace the true theatrics of the hobby. If we could only get past the weekend camping social outing aspect and treat events like an open stage, the possibilities seem endless to me.

Kent Dorr
"Devils Own Mess"

i sit in camp... not sure i like the idea of leaving my stuff unattended. generally i have a little project going... tatting or quilting. thoguh neither one has gone far. i like doing it while talking. or cooking. doing something like those gets people talking.

Quote :

Charles Heath wrote :This is one of those utterly basic differences taught by the fine folks at the NPS to those who volunteer at their sites.  I'll let some of the living history types explain the difference, as it was explained to us over 10 years ago.

Sorry, Charles:  You don't get off that easy.  Since you brought it up, you should elaborate on it.

Linda,

For me, I'm available to the spectators/visitors/whatever for as long as they are present, whether in the camp or elsewhere.  It's one of the things I like most about reenacting.

At some events, the s/v/w come in droves and ask lots of questions and listen to presentations.  At others, they'll barely enter the camps or speak to us, even when called to by us.  I don't know if they think they're "intruding" on us or if they think they aren't allowed in the camps.

Had you come over to our tents at Buffington, you'd have probably gotten more attention than you wanted from us.

Bernie, when you arrive in the middle of a play, it bodes well to read the program. In this instance, you may or may not have had much exposure to different forms of homo sapiens who wander into an event.

Ever hear the term "'tater?"  That's shorthand for the typical mullett wearing, knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, butt scratching, booger eating, youngin' on the hip, Hank Jr.'s Naval Jack flyin' (proudly) spectators who show up (and sometimes pay to show up) at your basic battle reenactment for the entertainment value. This is the "public" so many claim to be educating, but are mostly entertaining, if that. These folks want to see the big bang, watch the cannon go boom, ask if the wool is hot, find out if "yew gonna eat dat?" and other pressing questions, in between catching up on NASCAR news and tabloid TV. Fire up the smoked turkey leg vendor, let the funnel cake stands, print off a few thousand more "It's halftime!" & "Buy a Yankee a bus ticket!" bumper stickers, and have the generic bloomin' onion cutters shred, bread, and fry away on the carnival midway. Woo hoo! I sure hope you get the idea, but if you don't -- please go sit in a Waffle House about the time the bars close, and this will be crystal clear.

In the immortal words of one park ranger, "We don't have spectators, we have park visitors."

Enter the visitor, typically a battlefield park visitor, who may have read a book or a dozen on the subject, and may appear with map in hand. This person has already figured out wool is warm, fire is hot, and how good coffee and bacon smell cooking side by side. The questions they ask may have more to do with the war, the battle, and the (I hope I can use this word) HISTORY. It's amazing.  In fact, these folks regularly know more than the living history participants, since they tend to be battlefield groupies.

Here is one you'll enjoy. Those young gals in short shorts and sports bras often seen jogging the battlefields, as can be viewed at Kennesaw Mountain, among other places, well, by golly, that's scenery.  We might be reenactors, but we ain't dead.  

I sure hope this helps, especially that last part.

Charles....what would be the ratio, spectators to visitors?  And is it higher in KY?

Kent Dorr
"Devils Own Mess"

Kent,

Is that regular Kentucky or Pennsyltucky?  

Quote :

Ever hear the term "'tater?"  That's shorthand for the typical mullett wearing, knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, butt scratching, booger eating, youngin' on the hip, Hank Jr.'s Naval Jack flyin' (proudly) spectators who show up (and sometimes pay to show up) at your basic battle reenactment for the entertainment value. This is the "public" so many claim to be educating, but are mostly entertaining, if that. These folks want to see the big bang, watch the cannon go boom, ask if the wool is hot, find out if "yew gonna eat dat?" and other pressing questions, in between catching up on NASCAR news and tabloid TV.

Wow, and I thought you only insulted other reenactors --thanks for clearing that up.  It makes the whole problem a lot simpler if we assume the mass of humanity to be beyond redemption.

Coming up fast on the 8th anniversary of the thread where some of those lines were originally made famous, the nod to Gretchen Wilson is a darn nice touch.