In the Harpers Weekly from Jan 10, 1863, here is a response from Jeff Davis to the recent proclomation.

A ROAR FROM JEFF DAVIS.
Jefferson Davis has issued a violent retaliatory proclamation to the emancipation proclamation of Mr. Lincoln, denouncing the course of General Butler in New Orleans in vehement terms, and dooming him and all the officers in his command to death by the halter, when they are caught. Jeff knew, when he issued his proclamation, that Butler had been removed.

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/civil-war/1863/january/lincoln-fredericksburg.htm  

--Last edited by Ken Cornett on 2008-01-13 18:57:17 --

Somewhat along those same lines, Butler was the father-in-law of Adelbert Ames, who was a carpetbagger governor of Mississippi. Ames was governor during the election of 1875, which was referred to afterwards as the Redemption Election. The Redemption Election was supposedly the election that ended reconstruction. In reality, the Redemption Election was a nasty and bloody affair. Not the first person was ever convicted of the literally scores and scores of murders that took place prior to that election

The Emancipatiom Proclomation was no different then the political crap we hear on a regular basis today. At the time the proclomation was issued/signed, what did it really do? Not much of anything but make folks feel good. And, want to vote for Lincoln. Same goes for the welfare programs of today. Even the ammendment that freed the slaves was pretty much useless. Me, stirring...

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GrumpyDave wrote : The Emancipatiom Proclomation was no different then the political crap we hear on a regular basis today. At the time the proclomation was issued/signed, what did it really do? Not much of anything but make folks feel good.

Well, we certainly are grumpy today aren't we!  

The one thing the Emacipation Proclmmation did was to insure that England and France were not going to recognize the Confederacy as a soverign nation. It also changed the entire object of the War from a northern viewpoint. Now, there was a bigger aim than just reuniting the States. It was ending slavery.

In regard to the 13th. Amendment. We've made a lot of progress, but we still have a way to go.  

--Last edited by Bill on 2008-01-13 17:22:39 --

At least our politicians today don't end up in pistol duels.

Now if someone would get in the race that I can get fired up about.

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GrumpyDave wrote : At the time the proclomation was issued/signed, what did it really do? Not much of anything but make folks feel good. And, want to vote for Lincoln.

Can't anyone here spell proclamation?  

When the announcement of the Proclamation came out, there were a goodly number of folk, both military and civilian, who did not look kindly on it.  Some soldiers, officers and enlisted alike, didn't care for the idea of fighting for anything other than preservation of the Union.  I've read enough letters on the subject to believe it was not an uncommon sentiment.

Some of that sentiment dissolved, I think, as the Union armies went deeper into Southern territory and soldiers began to see the realities of slave life for themselves.

In the end, it proved to be a tactical, strategic and political coup for the Lincoln administration and the Union cause.  It could also have backfired dramatically.

My tendency is to have tunnel vision when it comes to history.  What I mean by that is I fail to connect events outside of that tunnel to history in general.  Here is an example of events outside of the Civil War that did have an impact.  Because it is European in nature, it is seldom mentioned in any discussion/narrative about the American Civil War.

The Crimean War with England, France, and Turkey on one side and Imperial Russia on the other had just concluded in 1858. The US did not send troops but did support the Russian effort.  

In 1860, the geography that later on became Poland was divided between Prussia and Czarist Russia. A strong independence movement broke out in Russia's portion. By 1861, a full scale armed revolt occurred and threatened to spread, with the same old gang of major players involved.  Russia was on one side and England and France were fanning the flames of the revolutionists. It had the makings of the Crimean War all over again.  In order to keep their fleet from getting bottled up in the Baltic sea and at Vladivostok (as happened in the Crimean War,) the Russians set about preventing a recurrence of that.  What really raised some European eye brows is the better portion of the Russian Baltic Fleet sailed to New York. I don’t have the references in front of me, so I cannot write the exact date.  But it can be said with certainty this happened post-Sumter. Remember, communication, especially the trans-oceanic version, was primitive at best.  The very best part of all of these shenanigans is the wonderful Russians neglected to tell anyone they were coming. This is an over-simplification, but the Port of New York harbor master reported to work one morning and saw he had over a dozen Russian warships dropping anchor in New York Harbor like they owned the place.

When the Russian fleet ended up in New York Harbor, the English and French (who knew full well what went on between Moscow and Washington in the Crimean war) assumed some sort of treaty existed between the US and Russia. Treaties would normally promise United States intervention if England and France attacked Russia, and conversely Russia would rally to the American side if England and/or France entered the Civil War on the Confederate side. No such treaty existed, but in light of what happened, it appeared so to Paris and London.  Remember, the appearance of a treaty can be as effective as the real version.

Take this series of events, tie it to the European attitudes about slavery, and then connect it all to the Emancipation Proclamation.  Is it possible the Emancipation was as much to appease the Brits and Europeans as to change the focus of the war?  

I don’t know if this helps explain the attitudes of England and France toward the American Civil War or whether it just further muddies the water.  

--Last edited by Curtis Makamson on 2008-01-15 08:26:18 --

It is a shrewd political document.  The Proclamation only had meaning and value if Lincoln's armies could support his mere words with battlefield victories.  It changed the war from one about land and who controls it to one about the people who reside and labor upon it.  

Bernie, notice I did correct it in the title.  But with me being a former high school teacher, I couldn't resist.  

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flattop32355 wrote :   Some of that sentiment dissolved, I think, as the Union armies went deeper into Southern territory and soldiers began to see the realities of slave life for themselves.

Bernie,

If you haven't read it, "What This Cruel War Was Over" by Chandra Manning, discusses this subject in detail. Excellent book.  

--Last edited by Bill on 2008-01-15 11:39:18 --

Curtis, Thanks for the post. I learned something new today.

Rob

I wasn't aware of the Russian Fleet situation in New York Harbor.  I also didn't have knowledge of exactly where the Russians stood during the war.  I too learned this evening.

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Ken Cornett wrote : Bernie, notice I did correct it in the title.  But with me being a former high school teacher, I couldn't resist.

Ken

Thanks, I guess I didn't even notice that I had spelled it wrong.  I will try to pay better attention next time.

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toptimlrd wrote : At least our politicians today don't end up in pistol duels. Now if someone would get in the race that I can get fired up about.

Might make some of the races and things in politics more interesting if they did.. or at least if there were more canings I might pay a little more attention..  

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lhsnj wrote :

Is it me or is the icon that’s getting hit by the other one smiling?   Where did you get that perverted smiley face?    

--Last edited by hendrickms24 on 2008-01-16 08:23:25 --

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hendrickms24 wrote :   Is it me or is the icon that’s getting hit by the other one smiling?   Where did you get that perverted smiley face?

It is in the selections on the left under "violent".

Harpers Weekly - Oct 17th 1863:

OUR RUSSIAN VISITORS.
WE devote considerable space this week to illustrations of the grand reception given last week to our distinguished Russian visitors. The ceremony was intended to have, and had, a political significance. No notice whatever was taken of the fleets of the British and French admirals lying in the Bay. But every citizen felt bound to do what in him lay to testify to the Russians our sense of gratitude for the friendly manner in which Russia has stood by us in our present struggle, while the Western Powers have done not a little to work our ruin. On pages 664 and 665 we give a general view of

LISOVSKI'S FLEET.
This consists of the flag-ship Alexander Nevski, screw frigate of 51 guns, 4500 tons, Captain Fedorovski; the screw frigate Peresvet, 48 guns, 3800 tons, Captain Kopytov; screw frigate 0sliaba, 33 guns, 2800 tons, Captain Boutakoff; screw sloop Vitiaz, 17 guns, 2100 tons, Captain Lund; and screw sloop Variag, 17 guns, 2100 tons, Captain Kremer. The following sketch of the squadron will be read with interest:

The two largest of the squadron, the frigates Alexander Nevski and Peresvet, are evidently vessels of modern build, and much about them would lead an unpracticed eye to think they were constructed in this country. The frigate Osliaba is unlike the other two; she has more the appearance of one of the first of the heavy screw ships built in the European dock-yards. Her bluff bows and full counter do not give evidence of great speed; but she is doubtless a fair goer and fine sea-boat. The two steam corvettes, or sloops, as we term them, Variag and Vitiaz, are apparently very superior vessels. They are fully equal in tonnage to the steamers in our service of the class of the Brooklyn, Richmond, and others, and carry very serviceable batteries. They are evidently constructed for speed, and have engines of full power. All these vessels are ship rigged, and are heavily sparred, so much so that if their smoke-stacks were out of sight you would hardly suppose them to be propelled by steam. Their standing rigging appears to be very slight in comparison with our ships of the same class.

The batteries of these ships are of formidable character, although all smooth-bored guns. They are of one calibre, throwing a solid shot of sixty pounds' weight, and of two classes, the long and medium, weighing about sixty and eighty hundred weight. They are of a pattern peculiarly Russian, but are fitted in a similar manner to the broad-side guns of our own vessels. The locks and sight are different from ours, but no doubt answer equally as good a purpose. The batteries appear to be in excellent condition, and ready for service at a moment's warning. The guns are polished like mirrors, and every thing goes to show that their crews take pride in keeping their "pets" in proper order, ready for service or inspection of visitors.

The instant you step foot over the gangways of these ships it becomes evident that they are in the hands of men who understand how to keep a ship in the most thorough order. The decks are as white as holy-stones and sand can make them, the paint work spotless, the brass and other bright work shining as if they were cleaned every five minutes; rigging neatly coiled down on deck or on the belaying pins—no ends of ropes hanging about—every thing hauled taut and properly belayed, in fact, every thing looks "ship-shape and Bristol fashion" just as a sailor likes to Lee it. A lady with the most immaculate skirts and kid gioves can move any where, on deck or below, without danger of soiling either, so perfectly clean every thing about the ship is kept. The quarter-deck is entirely clear, with the exception of the battery; but on board the 0sliaba the boats—between the fore and main masts—appear to crowd the decks, being stowed in a manner to leave but little space between them and the ship's bulwarks. The gun and berth decks are low in comparison with the heavy ships of our service.

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lhsnj wrote :   It is in the selections on the left under "violent".

I guess I should have used this one on my post:

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toptimlrd wrote :   I guess I should have used this one on my post:

Robert,that one is hilarious  

--Last edited by Parault on 2008-01-17 16:10:05 --