From Corporal Si Klegg and His Pard:

Some companies with ambitious officers spent a great deal of time and perspiration in learning the picturesque "bayonet-drill." This drill was a Frenchy affair—with its "parry" in "prime," "se-conde," "tierce" and "high quarte;" its "guard," "lunge, "and "blow with the butt;" its "advance," "retreat," and "leapto the rear, kneel and over the head, parry"—that kept the men jumping around like so many animated frogs. It was a sort of gilt-edged drill and, like a ring in a Fiji Islander's nose, much more ornamental than useful. Companies that had become proficient in this manual, used to give impressive exhibitions on Sundays and idle days, before admiring crowds of soldiers whose military education was defective in this respect.
Perhaps they fight on these scientific principles in France, but in "our war" nobody ever heard any of these commands given in battle. An officer who attempted to put the drill into actual practice would have been sent to the rear and clothed in a strait-jacket. The fancy drill was as useless as a blanket to a Hottentot.

I read this passage the other night and had to laugh at the images.  I recall our company commander at an event this past summer leading the company through bayonet drill in the hot august weather.  I was a spectator that day because it was a day out with my son and a potential recruit.  And this was the image I saw above.. them jumping around like a bunch of frogs..

Greg,

In the modern Army we trained on bayonet and hand to hand fighting. I figured I learned just enough to get myself killed.

Some things never change!    

Bill, I just saw a recent video of bayonet training in BCT.  The bayonets were rounded like a chain saw blade.  The ones we used in 1985 were Vietnam left overs and they were quite sharp.

In teaching bayonet drill at a school of the soldier ten years ago, I prefaced my instruction with those very words from Si Klegg.  

The bayonet drill comes in handy when some moron takes a swipe at you during some unscrïpted hand to hand.  Good way to get him to quit is to parry his musket with menacing force and then smote him with the command voice as you've gotten to his body.  Puts the fear of God into them every time.

[cit]lhsnj wrote : From Corporal Si Klegg and His Pard:

rhaps they fight on these scientific principles in France, but in "our war" nobody ever heard any of these commands given in battle.

Si might not have known it, but no one ever fought hand-to-hand with bayonets "by command". The purpose of the commands is to familiarize the soldier with various ways of attacking and defending oneself in hand-to-hand combat with a bayonet. If they trained long and hard enough, when the moment of combat came, they wouldn't have to think about it, because the training takes over and they just do what they need to do. You "real Army" types know this - that's why they train the heck out of you, so when the crisis of combat arrives, you don't have to think, you just do...

IMHO, I find that bayonet drill is really exciting and in a "Tai Chi" kind-of-way, relaxing. Participation in the uniform fluidity of the motions performed by a group is great to be in and to watch! I have found that spectators are drawn to it like flies to butter.

At the point in the book when Si makes this observation, he is still a fresh recruit who has just received his rifle and bayonet.

But at the same time, the story is being written by a soldier after the war and his recollections on these things.

Could you give me the page numbers from the book? Please? Pretty Please?

Bayonet fighting was indeed pretty rare. That doesn't mean the bayinet wasn't important. Two examples from the Texas Brigade. Most of the Texas troops had thrown their bayonets away during the Western Campaign. Which was fine, until they got chased off the field by a Federal unit that hadn't thrown theirs away. It was reported that within days, the entire Brigade was again rearmed with bayonets. Where they got all those bayonets wasn't reported!

The 4th. Texas had only one man who was confirmed as being killed by a bayonet during the entire War. It was during the Petersburg campaign. They had been repulsed and were retreating back to the Confederate lines. One man was slow and a big Federal caught up to him and bayonetted him in the back.  

Quote :

GrumpyDave wrote : Could you give me the page numbers from the book? Please? Pretty Please?

I believe it is pages 89-90.  

I also found it online here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=sqQcAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA90&lpg=PA89&ots=iAj3r-pl5k&dq=corporal+si+klegg+bayonet&output=html

"I leaned down from the saddle, rammed the muzzle of the carbine into the stomach of my man and pulled the trigger. He tried to get his bayonet up to meet me; but he was too slow, for the carbine blew a hole as big as my arm clear through him."
-Adjutant William W. Blackford, 1st Virginia Cavalry, at First Bull Run

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--Last edited by oldkingcrow on 2008-02-13 16:03:55 --

I just picked up a book a week or so ago (I don't have it handy so I can't remember the name) written by a General Gordon who was in the Confederate Army.  In the book he is retelling many of the battles that he and his men were involved in and one short except was about one particular battle involving bayonets.

It seems that the Union was preparing to attack what they perceived to be a week Confederate contingency and the Union commander determined to attach with bayonets fixed and the weapons unloaded.  He tells of several charges in this manner before the Yanks finally begin to use their ammo but far too late.

I'm not so sure that a leader would take such an approach.  Does that sound like something that may actually have happened or is perhaps the memory (the book was written in 1903) of the general perhaps a bit cloudy?

Quote :

hamiltonjoe1950 wrote : I just picked up a book a week or so ago (I don't have it handy so I can't remember the name) written by a General Gordon who was in the Confederate Army.  In the book he is retelling many of the battles that he and his men were involved in and one short except was about one particular battle involving bayonets. It seems that the Union was preparing to attack what they perceived to be a week Confederate contingency and the Union commander determined to attach with bayonets fixed and the weapons unloaded.  He tells of several charges in this manner before the Yanks finally begin to use their ammo but far too late. I'm not so sure that a leader would take such an approach.  Does that sound like something that may actually have happened or is perhaps the memory (the book was written in 1903) of the general perhaps a bit cloudy?

Didn't Upton have his men charge with bayonets, but unloaded at the Muleshoe.  So that the men wouldn't stop to fire, they would just keep advancing.

I thought he had his troop go in with load weapons but without percussion caps!  

--Last edited by hendrickms24 on 2008-02-01 13:27:43 --

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hendrickms24 wrote : I thought he had his troop go in with load weapons but without percussion caps!

I wasn't sure if it was that or the other.  I knew the main point was for them to not stop to fire and keep the forward momentum.

Just go home and the book is "Reminicences of the Civil War" by General John B. Gorden.

He is addressing this isuue in a section on Antietam and mentions that it was around September 16, 1862 near Sharpsburg.

He refers to four separate charges by the Union, all with unloaded rifles.  He then refers to them loading an "He drew up in close rank and easy range, and opened a galling fire upon my line."

General Gordon states that he received five wounds during this particular battle.

It's pretty clear from my reading. Bayonet charges took place a lot more often in the General's imagination, then they took place in the Private's reality. Flowery prose about giving the enemy "Cold steel" reads really well in Victorian literature.

That's not to say bayonets weren't often fixed during attacks. Getting close enough to actually use them is another matter.  

--Last edited by Bill on 2008-02-01 20:03:18 --