The Annual Gettysburg Event is scheduled to begin in a couple of days. What do you guys think of this event in particular and "for profit" events in general?

Frankly, I'm of a mixed mind on both accounts. We only attend the five year anniversaries and some of my most vivid memories in the Hobby have occured at these events, especially the 135th.
It's the only reenactment, where you have the possibility of reenacting major actions with more or less authentic numbers. By the same token, some of my worst moments have taken place at these events.

The capitalist in me says that if you invest your money in any business, be that a gas station or a reenactment, you deserve the possibility of making a profit. The other side of me says  its a travisity to make money off the the Boy's of '61. Frankly, it's got to be difficult to make money off the big events, or there would be a lot more of them. When you start dealing with thousands of reenactors and tens of thousands of spectators, costs have got to be bizarre. I know what it costs to put on the little Neshaminy event, and all our labor is free.    

--Last edited by Bill on 2007-07-03 10:44:50 --

Bill

If someone wants to put on a "for profit" event then so be it.. it is the American way.  Find a market and figure out how to make a profit from it.  I think the issues I have with some of those events is that they will try to lure reenactors there with a promise of preservation money.

Another issue is that these events are probably very expensive to put on like you said and so they need to have high ticket prices for spectators and high registration costs.  In doing so comes high expectations from visitors/participants.  What happens it seems is to keep profits high but costs low, you cut out things (porta johns, trash pickup, parking staff).  These things help decide if some people will come back to the event again should you want to make another profit.

On the spectator side, they come expecting to see something related to the civil war.. and depending on what camps or parts of the event they wander through.. they may not see that and that might mean they won't be back to another one of those events.  

One thing I have learned from the business I am in ... it only takes 1 ticked off customer to spread bad reports about a business.

On the other hand I do agree with you that they are neat to be able to see the sheer size of the numbers of troops.  To look back along a column and see it keep going into the distance.  To be able to see what you read about in terms of land area taken up by an "army" at rest.  These are not things you can get when you attend the little 10 man LH.  

Not sure if I answered any of the questions you asked or if I just rambled on..

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lhsnj wrote : Bill Not sure if I answered any of the questions you asked or if I just rambled on..

Greg,

That was exactly what I was looking for. Excellent post.  

Whether I'm in the majority or minority remains to be seen, but I haven't attended the Gettysburg reenactment since the 138th or 139th. But, it would be interesting to know just what kind of profit the event takes in every year to keep it going like it does.

We quit going because it seemed, to us, at least, that the event was more about drawing in spectators (and their $$) and giving them 2 battles a day to see, than it was about anything else. We felt it akin to paying to work overtime.

For those that were around "back then", the whole deal of at least one mega-event per year, with all the baggage that went with it, kinda soured us on the "for profit" reenactments.

To answer Bill's question, do I have a problem with someone making a buck off an event? Not really, but give me something in return since I'm paying also. I doubt this made sense since I'm eating lunch and typing at the same time.

Rest assured, the 145th next year will have huge numbers.

Mark  

--Last edited by mstuart on 2007-07-03 12:31:27 --

theres no way we could afford it.. their prices are a bit outrageous. i hate when places like that have high entrance prices, makes it hard to take my family places.

It's gotta' have something to do with history for me to attend, generally speaking. I attended the G135 event as a spectator, before I got into the hobby. That's one of the reasons I do what I do. I was utterly deeeeeesssscusted by what I saw portryaed as history. Why do you think they call me Grumpy? Anyway, not to get on a soapbox but, I have attended the battle of someplace local a couple of times. And, it is what it is.

Yep, sacrifice history and the memory of those who gave the ultimate sacrifice for profit. Is that the American way? Back on the soapbox... go to any Civil War Cematary. Look at all of the men who gave up everything, including their identity(there are generally more unknown graves), for a cause they thought noble. Someone should profit from that? Not from me.

My son was still active in the hobby during the 135th Gettysburg and we went.  Our whole unit went.  As has already been pointed out, its numbers provided some truly unique sights and sounds.  For those I am grateful.  I am grateful for them but it was really wonderful to experience them with my son.  It was a far cry from the smallish local events we normally attended.  Unfortunately, there were some equally unique sights that went 180 degrees in the opposite direction.  As a first time experience, yeah, everybody needs to go to one the humongous maga-events with all the bells, whistles, and more participants than you can count.

As far as being a repeat customer we have not been a good one.  We have not returned to Gettysburg.  There is some talk of us venturing back in that direction next summer.

As far as profits are concerned, my primary questions would center around how are the profits used?  After all of the events obligations are met, if the remainder is used as seed money for the next time that would be acceptable.  I would not be opposed to people being compensated for their time and efforts in hosting the event.  However, in a perfect world, greed and/or avarice would not be involved with any such profits.  It is a perfect world, isn‘t it?

I usually try to hit one national mega-event per year (didn't this year). To echo some just seeing the sheer numbers of troops is always impressive, I was fortunate enough to be near the head of the Confederate column at Manassas last year and when we were given rest at the top of a small hill I turned around to see the rest of the Confederate column marching up in their variety of standard and militia uniforms for as far as the eye could see. Of course these events come complete with their usual problems such as overly farby impressions, partying late in camps, vehicles in camp at the wront times, funnel cake cities, etc. but I take them for what they are. I have not been to the Gettysburg event before and am planning on doing so next year simply to say I did it and see it for myself. I will withhold my opinion until then. I have been to a couple of big events I enjoyed and some that left me wondering what the heck it was all about; I just take them event by event.  

--Last edited by toptimlrd on 2007-07-03 19:17:06 --

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Bill wrote : The Annual Gettysburg Event is scheduled to begin in a couple of days. What do you guys think of this event in particular and "for profit" events in general?

I'd rather have my intestines removed with a dull potato hook.

I have never personally been to a national event.  The way everyone is talking/talked about them, why should I go to one?  Sounds like 1 big farb fest and money maker for the sponsors.. Give me reasons why I should go to one?  Convice me!  Or is all this stuff really true?

Cris,

It really depends on you, your level of authenticity, and your ability to deal with folks of varying levels of authenticity. If you are wanting serious history heavy portrayals, then you willbe disapointed at most national events. If on the other hand you would like to see huge forces opposing each other then you may enjoy one of the nationals. They will be crowded however and very mainstream at best as far as encampments. Tjhere have been some great moments at National events and there have been some that you just had to shake your head at.  

--Last edited by toptimlrd on 2007-07-04 18:22:36 --

I enjoyed the 140th anniversary LH at the Park, especially singing "Morgenrot" with Jan Henrik, Sebastien, and Klaus.  Augustburg was a different matter, and a bit of a turning point for me.  I actually bought the video and fast forwarded through, hoping to see myself.  But then I was really hoping not to see myself.  I've held on to it ever since as an example of bizarre cinema -- like "Freaks" but in color, and with worse dialog.  I think it could easily pass as an Andy Warhol production -- a kind of stoned, ultra-ironic satire of American military hubris.  If I ever get to the point where "Dazed and Confused" just doesn't hit the spot, I'm going to put the Augustburg tape in, but even then I think I'd need to score some really good hash first, and I think all that probably got smoked by the 115th.

What was the question?

I'll post an AAR for Gettysburg from a first time attendee in the next day or 2. We arrived back in NC late, late last night and I'm still half asleep. Just a little hint: It was truly interesting  to hear the rude remarks about Col. Polyester and Gen. Rayon as they watched from a distance as we Confederates formed and did weapons inspections Sat.afternoon.

Gregg Hensley
The McDowell Boys

Gregg, if you could have attended a high quality event during this same timeframe (as an alternative to going to Goofysburg)would you have done so?

Without a doubt!!!!to answer your question in 3 words. I do have the ability to put blinders on and try to keep myself in the mindset and the moment, but it was kinda like trying to avoid a nuclear blast, for lack of better words.
 The event had some incredible moments for me personally, even with all the tremendous farbiness. For example, my son carried the Regimental colors of the 22nd NC throughout the weekend. My son has over 15 ancestors who fought in the 22nd NC, so this was a moving experience for me, to say the least. We had troops from Co. K and Co.B from NC in attendance. We had troops from Co. E and Co. A from Pennsylvania in attendance also. So, we had a first time gathering of all the companies. We had a grand time, even with the oppressive heat. It may be hard to understand how one could have a moving experience at a farbfest, but it can happen. To see your son leading the troops off to battle with the Colors is a rare experience!
 Now that I've gotten sentimental, I'll post the Goofysburg AAR part tomorrow. It will probably take several posts to cover all the goofiness part. A second hint: Gen. Polyester standing proudly beside his Chief of Staff Col. Rayon. They are standing in the direct 90 degree sun. Neither has a canteen.

2nd Sgt. Gregg Hensley
22nd NCST, Co. K
The McDowell Boys  

--Last edited by Gregg Hensley on 2007-07-10 21:15:28 --

Don't know if anyone is forgetting, or is being told.....but the G135 spectacular was NOT put on by the same people that run the annual Gettysburg..... Antietam 135 (A135) was a real eye opener for many of us....and there were some moments at A135 that had us yearning for more.

And that's how most of us showed up at G135.

Warlick, LeBeouf, Heim, Clark, et al are no longer doing these MegaFests (and G135 was my last)....

But at the time, they were unbelievable. That West Woods Scenario when we kept bringing up Column after Column of Federal Infantry in the Staging area...extending Literally out of sight... then we marched into battle and skirted the real fire.

Anyway, Why BIG? Because size in and of itself is more authentic. I'm not talking Sears Overall Uniforms, nor Cowboy hats. But there is definitely something about 10,000 rifles marching in the dark towards the Cornfield....seeing the flash of far away artillery, then hearing the boom.

and very tough to reenact a Battle with 500 or less rifles, and very few horses.

Anyway....

I'm a businessman myself. If someone wants to make PROFIT on an event, then have at it. We have no right to ask to see their books, and they can charge what the market will bear....for spectators or (reen)actors, bottles or tankers of water, hot food or firewood to heat food/people, parking shuttles security, medical, etc.

As a former accountant/financial analyst I know all about nonprofits, volunteer work, salaries, revenue, and profit (numerous definitions of course). If you think running a nonprofit event is more COST EFFECTIVE than simply sending in $10 each to a specific preservation effort, you are misinformed. Add up the costs to throw the event, transportation/food/lodging for each person to attend the event, and the opportunity cost of time spent in the effort and it ain't rocket science. We'd be better off mowing a neighbor's lawn and sending the $10-$20 into Mike Chapman.

We do have the right to not attend, spend the money buying things we don't want to, and the right to bitch, moan, and complain about it....attempting to steer people/resources/money elsewhere. Even if we don't attend ourselves. We should have the right to point out the obvious failings of events even if we didn't help out, attend, or weren't part of the solution without being split in two. If the Emperor isn't wearing clothes, let's state the obvious and come up with a solution at future events. And yes, Rex Grossman should not have started as QB in the Super Bowl.

BTW: haven't paid for a Baseball game since the strike in 1993.... isn't that easy, you simply don't attend/pay for things you can't condone or don't want to.....  

--Last edited by rjsamp on 2007-07-11 13:13:41 --

Must agree on Antietam 135th..the best mega event I ever attended. The long blue columns as we marched to battle was simply fantastic along with the proper period division flags etc. The cornfield battle marching in the dark to the sound and sight of the cannons was a unique experience.

Picketts Charge at the 135th Gettysburg also was a sight to behold as the Confederates came across the field.

Hard to beat large numbers done correctly, but with the amount of upfront money needed to stage such an event and get everyone working on the same page etc etc....I seriously doubt we will ever see such events again.

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Warlick, LeBeouf, Heim, Clark, et al are no longer doing these MegaFests (and G135 was my last)....

RJ, you were doing pretty well until you reached this point in the post. While those above mentioned players aren't megafesting as hard as they can, the same old GAC (Gettysburg Anniversary Committee) is still out there plugging away each year. Were you on the conference call when G&L were trying to come up with a competing 140th anniversary event to the rain-delayed GAC fiasco on the Redding Farm? If not, you really missed a funny conversation.

lol- chas I remember that call...ha!  I think I angered some folks on that one..

Good times

Chris

Ahhh, yes the good OLD GAC....

Never have attended one of their events. Recall the dual G135 where they were Bad Mouthing Warlick/LeBeouf et al and helped delay the issuance of permits....they folded their tent about 2 weeks before the event and were instrumental in 'limiting' attendance at 15,000.0000000001 (now how's that for precision!). We ran out of 22,500 medallions Friday Night and more reenactors were coming or had already left the circus......

I don't even consider the twice a year GBurg events by GAC, now down to once a year, on the radar.

Obviously I attend the NSA events every year....had a lot of fun at the Chick-a-Dusty in 1999 and most of the events each year thereafter....but there seems to be A (or two, or three) major problem(s) each year that just leave you scratching your vitals.

Would love to see an Andersburg next year.....but if GAC has its way it won't happen.  OUCH.  

--Last edited by rjsamp on 2007-07-14 08:35:37 --