Mills Springs is suppose to be this year's national event.  Just what makes an event the national event?  Why isn't anyone talking this one up?  Are you going?

Personally I am tired of the nationals.  I'll miss this one just to skip the hoopla.  I basically go to socialize and camp.  They are what they are and I really don't enjoy them.  Anyone else with an opinion?

Ken

I always thought of the "national" events as those ones that are anniversary events that will draw people from all over.  In other words, the mega event the one that "EVERY" bttn in the country has on their schedule as a max effort.

I lost my taste for national or mega events with the 135 Antietam.  And with this "new" round of events that are taking place (Sept Storm, Summer 62, etc...) I think I prefer those to the large mega events.

the AOP always does a fine job at NSA events. The 1st Federal Division always has some brass players for battlefield bugling and concert/hymn playing. We've probably turned the corner for the best on portraying scenarios in a more historical context (we had some massive melt downs at Franklin.....). We had something like 1,000 federal rifles at Raymond 2001 move their camp site Saturday..... maybe a record for a mainstream 'progressive' impression.

I think this year will be a 'down' year for the NSA.....not a lot of excitement nor numbers.....maybe it's too small a battle, or too far away, or not well known enough...  Dunfee and Dolive will be Changing Commands.

As always, if you attend, you Will hear me.  

--Last edited by rjsamp on 2007-09-19 14:42:48 --

Ok, so if there's 100 bodies at an event and there's folks there form the West Coast the Great Plains, the Southwest, Great Lakes, Canada, and all up and down the East Coast, is that a National event? There's folks from all over in attendance. If not, why?

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GrumpyDave wrote : if there's 100 bodies at an event and there's folks there from the West Coast the Great Plains, the Southwest, Great Lakes, Canada, and all up and down the East Coast, is that a National event?

Grumpy,

Sure it is, but I think we're talking about big-assed events with bunches of people in attendance. I think it would be safe to say the 135th. Gettysburg qualified. After that, it's what anybody wants to say is a "National" event. I think the term  is "Hyping an event".

Since the 145th cycle of events is going to be my last harrah, I was hopeing for a true National Event, but I doubt it's going to happen. There's not enough people, too much politics, and nobody willing to invest a year of his life putting one on.

I don't think I'd call any of the NSA events "national", as not many folk from east of the Big Scaries seem to attend.  (Thanks, Chris, for bringing a contingent over to Perryville last year.)

NSA's are more a regional happening, IMO, and cater more to the affiliated organizations than the broad mass of reenactors, though they are entirely welcome to participate.

I don't think we'll see a truly national event until somewhere within the 150th cycle.  Gburg is the most likely one, but then, which Gburg will that be, if any?  First Bull Run and the leadup to Appomattox are also two likely candidates.

Being part of a 7-10,000 man force on the move would be a once in a lifetime experience.  I hope it happens, and is done well.

Bernie,

The N/SA offerings were the Western nationals, just as the Don & Glen Show fests were the Eastern nationals after Nappy Tactics folded. The N/SA has been fading fast since 1999. D&G's last big event gasp (without G) was 2002. Some of the also rans have faded from the scene, and GAC is still doing their annual thing, but it isn't much compared with the old, truly big events.

Approximately three years ago, the AC Forum had an excellent thread listing the various national events, and the adjuncts and carpe eventa that went with them. That info is likely gone in a crash, and no one has the time or inclination to post it yet again. Across the board, numbers are way down. What were once a knee jerk 10,000+ participant warm body events are now lucky to attract 2,000, and I'm not too sure we'll be seeing CW reenactments with 25,000+ participants again.

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Charles Heath wrote : Bernie, The N/SA offerings were the Western nationals, just as the Don & Glen Show fests were the Eastern nationals after Nappy Tactics folded. The N/SA has been fading fast since 1999.

Charles, amazing what happens to numbers when you start holding 'progressive' events...... ChickADusty (NSA 1999) featured dog tent at best carry it all in camping for the Federals....Raymond (NSA 2001) featured carry it all with you for battle and camp site changes...you ask CSA to wear CSA uniforms and have balanced force ratios and they cry themselves out of the events...throw in a real war, tough economy and gas prices...and we have a declining hobby. Period.

NSA and all other units (mainstream, farb, or CPH) have been fading fast for years.....  used to be a time when Dom/The AOP could field two 125 rifle battalions with issued rations and the ability to march and fight and camp 5 miles away.  44 man brigades, 28 man divisions (that was Mike Chapman's event this summer correct...2 company per side event portraying a Regiment?)... guys that don't want to fight....campaigners that don't march and think camping without a tent (and without the requisite powdered dust uniforms, wet feet, and bone weary fatigue) makes for a 'campaigner' impression.

You all were burned bad (we all were) at A140....but that's basically what the Battle Reenactment portion of the hobby needs..... 200 rifle battalions (one blue, one gray) doing it by the book at events that are historically focused.....one event out East, one event out 'West'... per year. If that's an Anders event and an NSA event per year...sounds good to me. You put a 200 rifle progressive+ battalion into a Cedar Freak, MudLoh, PACS/ANV and they simply get abused. You show up at McDowell, NSA, Anders V, and now we can portray a fight. Personally, I'm not in this hobby to put 50 guys in a pen and portray 600 prisoners. I'm in it to reenact the American Civil WAR. and there are a ton of reenactors who feel the same way.

Agree with you that we won't see 22,500+ soldier reenactors (they ran out of medallions Friday night at G135) at one place.....nor do we want to (the battles were awe inspiring but the piles of plastic and metal refuse at the battle sites were not).... But a series of 2,000 - 6,000 rifle progressive historically focused 'nationals' is what I think the hobby needs.....

"But a series of 2,000 - 6,000 rifle progressive historically focused 'nationals' is what I think the hobby needs....."

Well put.

IMHO, "National" is no more than an advertising term, period.

It's "See Da' Freak" or so I've herd...

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GrumpyDave wrote : It's "See Da' Freak" or so I've herd...

Grumpy,

Yeah, you saw a lot of freaky things at the mega events. They were also the only events where I've actually felt part of an army.

Without a doubt, the Pickett's Charge scenario at the 135th. Gettysburg was the most memorable experience I've had in the twenty years I've been in the Hobby. We made that attack at almost full scale. It wasn't the actual charge, it was the view of over 10,000 men forming up to make that attack. Gray and brown for as far as the eye could see.

I was actually only at one Cedar Creek event, as a participant, the "Night of the Stolen Flags." I left, disgusted, at about 3am on Sunday. I have however, witnessed several other Cedar Creek Events, participating with the Frederick Ladies at the Belle Grove Plantation. I haven't been back for about three years as I just don't like the product.  When is Cedar Creek this year? There is always a good collection of sutlers there. If you have a chance, sneak over to the Summer kitchen in the mansion. Those women always have too much excellent food.

RJ,

You pretty much nailed it on the numbers, and that's the way the cookie crumbles. Unfortunately, it's a mindset that is about 10 years too late.  The shine is long gone from the N/SA penny, and 1,500 participants does not an eastern megafest make.

That pretty much leaves us with what we have.

I do remember the time when the term "National Event" meant something special. I have taken an 8 year vacation from mega events, out of lack of interest-I honestly just didnt get anything out of them. Now my son is getting bigger an he has a burning passion for reenacting, he has been to several LHs since he was 3, but he has never seen the long lines of blue or gray snaking thorusgh hillsides or facing each other in long lines of "mock-battle". I will return to the states at the end of next month after an 18 month deployement, and over this past year and a half, I have had many thousands of hours to watch the forums and reflect on this hobby, which has been such a part of my life for the last 16 years. As anyone that has been in the hobby for a while knows, there seems to be very distinct trends and cycles that tend to replay themselves. It seems the hobby has reached a pinnacle and then leveled out the past couple of years, which would indicated that we are on the verge of another great shift. With the 150th rapidly sneaking towards us, that gives us as Living Historians, a great oppurtunity to reclaim the "National Event" and return it to the special meaning that the term once held. Just as it is with Battlefield preservation, it is entirly up to us to take the steps to steer the hobby the way we want it to go. When enough cows are moving the same direction, you have a stampede. Just my thoughts.

Charles came up with a list of "Who Are We" some time ago.  I believe there should be a discussion forum that somehow utilizes a list like this and ALL cyber-reenactors are not allowed.  You do four events a year or your no posting. We have 5000 regsitered users on the AC Forum, but the math doesn't support that even 20% of these guys do any actual reenacting!  So honestly, I don't even want to hear what they have to say. I realize some folks have valid reasons (not excuses) (i.e. deployments, job overseas, etc).

I don't dispute RJ's math either.  I have one additional theory as to the decline of numbers.  Our society has shifted to one of community and social activities to one of anti-social, private cyber activities.  Our society progressed past the "Me" generation to the "I don't give a sh*t about you" generation.  More and more internet activities are robbing the youth of the ability to socialize.  Some buddies and I do miniature, military wargaming. We tried to recruit a few young guys to play. They stated that they "play that on-line" already with "less hassle".  We tried to explain that is more about the guys-night out to share a beer and socialize than it is about the game. We are losing these opportunities to socialize and even the ability to do so.  My generation (as many of you) had little to do inside the house when we were youths. Going outside and taking part in activities with others was the only game in town. For the most part, that lifestyle is gone.

Jim Butler  

Yesterday Tom Gingras(Capt Gingras here) and I had the oppurtunity to sit down and chat for a few hours, which is a rare occassion as we are in different units, different ends of the camp, different ranks, and from different states. In the process of boring, and then running off some real life officers, we discussed exstensivly the trends in reenacting, and the AC Forum thread "100 man companies". We both are in agreement with Jim, that the "mess movement" of the last decade, originally helped the hobby, but has gotten to the point that it has now stunted the growth and progression. Furthermore the same politics that clutter mainstream units are identical to the ring kissing politicing that plauges the campaigner messes. I guess to an extent it is human nature to be clannish, and to lobby for the "alpha" position. These days there are far more oppurtunities to go do ones own thing than even 10 years ago, and the immediate communication of the internet, has killed some of the personal touch in this hobby. Maybe the answer is fewer events, but better quality and appeal to all types of reenactors. We desperatly need to get past the attitudes that we only do it this way, and address the fact that everyone has a different need out of the hobby. Never is everyone going to stash a cooler under the cot in their A-frame, anymore than everyone is going to carry one blanket, a knapsack, and the right number of stiches per inch of their sack coat. Hey, that is OK- best I can tell not one person is actually doing it correctly anyhow, and that is a good thing-dropping out of work and campaigning for 5 straight years would severly impact the national economy(and the divorce rate)not to mention the legal ramifications of slinging .58 caliber lead at each other. Besides the true authentics(the ones that were really there) would roll over in their graves at the sillyness of it all. Hopefully the 150th will bring about a third mindset, maybe the "hardstream" or "maincore" movement. That is the next logical step. Just my two cents from downrange.-ELI GEERY  

--Last edited by plankholder on 2007-09-23 14:57:50 --

I agree.

Don't tell anyone though, ok?

Politics in the CPH side of the hobby? No way! I've ben known to pick up th ephone once and a while, I know Chris Anders does the same and' it's a nice touch. Which reminds me, I gotta' send out an e-mail...

Having never been to a national event I am looking forward to attending Mill Springs to get a taste of what a larger event will be like.  Unfortunately, I've just discovered that I cannot stay for the full weekend (will have to leave sometime after the Saturday battles) but being that my g-grandfather was born nearby (Somerset) I've been anxiously awaiting this particular event.

I've been watching this thread last few days, and I've been dying to ask...what makes one anniversary bigger then the next? Aside from the fact that the 150th is coming up, which if I am safe to say is a milestone in terms of years which to seem to be calculated in increments of 50 (or so it seems in general terms) I am curious to know what made the 135th so special vs the 140th. 5 years difference...it just doesn't make much sense to me.

I also wanted to put my collective thoughts on the interenet bringing about the loss of personal touch to the hobby. I am very new to this, and I'm pretty much still on the outside looking in, but I just wanted to say that I do see this as a blessing and a curse. A blessing because of the amount of people you are able to contact via email and such. A curse because it has seemed more people are wanting to "play" soldier from the company of their own home.

As I said, I'm new to this whole thing, and I am also a civillian..but I just wanted to ask to see what the answer would be. Just collective thoughts I've had since reading this thread.

Quote :

I also wanted to put my collective thoughts on the interenet bringing about the loss of personal touch to the hobby. I am very new to this, and I'm pretty much still on the outside looking in, but I just wanted to say that I do see this as a blessing and a curse. A blessing because of the amount of people you are able to contact via email and such. A curse because it has seemed more people are wanting to "play" soldier from the company of their own home.

Nikki,

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.  Are you saying that most forum folks really don't attend events?  If that is the case, how would you know being so new?  I'll agree that there are a lot of keyboard reenactors out there.  By attending the events, you know who plays for real.  Maybe you can shed some light on your meaning.