![]() |
Administrators :Ken Cornett | |
| Forum The Common Ground - A Forum For Civil War Reenactors |
Not logged | Login
|
|
| Online:3 guests are browsing the forum | ||
Register |
Profile |
Private messages |
Search |
Online | Help
| Create a free blog | ||
![]() | ||
|
| ![]() | ![]() |
| Author : | Topic: Last weekend at Cedar Creek | Bottom |
| Bullet Sponge Posts : 19 What? ![]() |
I had a pretty good time too. After we bailed out of Sunday's battle, I happened to pass Vincent's, who were on the far left near the spectator line. I was then apprehended by Col. Palese, and pressed into service as bugler - so I wasn't able to complete my weekend's impression of a beat. BTW, I only counted one purveyor of Funnel Cakes, but two vendors were selling Fry Bread - the 19th century equivalent I suspect... | |||
| John Teller "Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." A. Lincoln |
| Julio C. Zangroniz Posts : 22 quote me accurately, dammit! |
Private Schnapps, Excellent report. My only disappointment: it doesn't come with your finest Spencerian efforts. The check, believe it or not, is already on my hands, and will provide much-needed resources for a trip to New Hampshire this very weekend when I will be consorting with French and Indian War friends. My friend Merrill is totally taken in by your charm and talents. You can expect to hear from her again. Unfortunately, it will be all business, for she has a steady boyfriend, who is a good friend of mine, who is also confident enough to put her on my hands for an entire weekend. She was a joy to mentor around. Merrill enjoyed a most auspicious introduction to Civil War reenacting and I sure hope that she continues to pursue the hobby, because she is a very good photographer and just might make a most worthwhile successor to yours truly in serving this community. In spite of some shortcomings, already discussed with a variety of folks in a variety of venues, the 2007 edition of Cedar Creek was a most worthwhile weekend. Hopefully, I can be there next year, Lord willing. Julio | |||
| Julio C. Zangroniz, Freelance Photojournalist |
| Michael Schaffner Posts : 253 Only the insane take themselves quite seriously -- Max Beerbohm |
We will miss you in the field, Julio, but it's a real comfort to know you'll still try to hit the highlights. That white duster is probably the most widely recognized item of clothing in the hobby. I very much enjoyed meeting Merrill, too -- turns out we read at the same place in NYC this year. I'm sure Mrs. Schnapps will be glad to hear about the steady boy friend <g> | |||
| Michael A. Schaffner Co. 'BSS', 16th Michigan Scrivener's Mess |
| Bill moderator Posts : 1387 The original fence sitter ![]() |
I saw some strange things during this year's Cedar Creek. During Saturday's scenario we were ordered to stop at the little creek at the base of the hill where the Federals were formed up. While we were waiting for the Federals to counter attack and push us off the field, we watched one Reb Battalion march across the creek in perfect order right up to the massed Federal battalions. After a while, they turned around and marched back down the hill and across the creek. The most amazing thing was the Federals didn't bother to shoot at them as they marched off, still in perfect order. ![]() | |||
| Bill Rodman King of Prussia, PA wrodman1@aol.com |
| Julio C. Zangroniz Posts : 22 quote me accurately, dammit! |
Bill, There were *exactly* 46 men in the Confederate force that crossed that little creek on Saturday and "pushed back" the hundreds and hundreds of Federal infantrymen (and myriad artillery) poised on higher ground. I know the exact numbers because I can count them in my photographs. That scenario looked utterly, utterly, ridiculous. I felt sorry for everyone who was forced to be a part of it. And a hand-to-hand scenario that took place about 25-30 feet in front of me as the Union forces launched their counterattack was even worse. Nearly everyone in it laughing, having a wonderful time, as if they were at a company picnic, rather than in an action that could (and would) snuff their health and/or very lives at any second. I know that we are all *amateur* actors, but... WE all need to have more pride in ourselves, in what we are portraying, when there are *paying* customers watching. Because, if nothing else, we are trying to help save a bona fide battlefield, Cedar Creek, from ever-encroaching development, and we NEED those paying customers back. Again and again and again. And they won't come back, even once, if they don't see a good show. And this past October, on that particular Saturday, we, the reenacting community, simply did NOT give that paying audience a good show. Just one man's opinion. Anybody with a well-reasoned opposing point of view, please feel free to add your two cents worth. I'm all ears. Julio | |||
| Julio C. Zangroniz, Freelance Photojournalist |
| hanktrent Posts : 195 |
On the issue of money and accuracy, here's something I noticed many years ago, when I was working at a museum with paid living history employees and volunteers. Everyone hit their own personal comfort level of accuracy, which varied widely and seemed to have no correlation to pay level, but the reasons for stopping were different. Those who were paid gave the reason: I'm only doing this for the money, so if they want me to do better, they need to pay me more. Those who were volunteering gave the reason: I'm only doing this for fun, so if they want me to do what they want, they'll need to pay me. At Cedar Creek, of course, the reenactors will never be paid, but if the incentive is to put on a more accurate show so spectators will pay money that will go toward a battlefield, that's a similar situation. At least some of the reenactors are there because their actions are "earning" money which will be donated to a cause they want to support. So I'd submit that those who go to Cedar Creek for fun won't voluntarily change to attract more spectators. Those who go to Cedar Creek solely to entice paying spectators won't voluntarily change unless they can be sure the sacrifice on their part will definitely bring in more money. Were there massive complaints from spectators? Booing? Demands of refunds? Were you upset enough to swear off attending events like Cedar Creek ever again? Because otherwise, those who want more accurate battles and/or more accurate "acting" are already implementing it at other events, and those who enjoy supporting Cedar Creek (for fun or fundraising) are at Cedar Creek, and it's darn hard to get people to do something they don't want to do. Hank Trent hanktrent@voyagern.et |
| Bill moderator Posts : 1387 The original fence sitter ![]() |
Hank, Over the years I've had the opportunity to stand with the spectators at a reasonable number of events. I make it a point to listen to their comments. On average, I find that most spectators don't understand the manoeuvres, but they are usually impressed by the masses of men moving around. It's my feeling that we, as participants, are more concerned about broken scenarios, than they are. There are two negative comments I've heard over and over and they both have to do with casualties. First, why aren't there more of them? They understand when two mobs of men stand fifty yards apart and shoot at each other for a while, sombody ought to get hit. Second, is the silly things that some of those few casualties do while laying on the battlefield. I've actually seen spectators point and laugh at some guy taking pictures when he's supposed to be dead or wounded. They also joke about the guys leaning on their elbows watching the action or the guy sitting in the middle of the field smoking a cigarette. In regard to the small battalion that marched right up to the Federal lines at Cedar Creek. I doubt many spectators would have been bothered by that, if the unit took massive hits and the survivors just ran away. Of course, that's not what happened. --Last edited by Bill on 2007-11-05 10:54:58 -- | ||||
| Bill Rodman King of Prussia, PA wrodman1@aol.com |
| lhsnj Posts : 604 ![]() |
Bill I find that sometimes seeing how it is on the other side of the rope line helps me improve. Because I hear what the spectators say and then look to apply the comments to myself and my unit at future events. | ||||
| Greg Bullock LHSNJ http://groups.msn.com/LivingHistorySocietyofNewJersey/_whatsnew.msnw |
| hanktrent Posts : 195 |
Here's a radical thought. From the spectators' viewpoint, is that bad? Comedy is entertainment as well. RenFaires have no shortage of visitors, though they do a hokey interpretation of the middle ages deliberately. If the goal is purely to give a good show to attract paying spectators to raise money for the battlefield, is giving them a chance to feel superior and laugh at the reenactors detracting from that? If the goal is to recreate what actually happened, to honor the original soldiers, and so forth, it's easy to say that a joking picture-snapping "dead man" needs to change. But how many of us would change something about our impression just because someone told us to, when we're happy doing what we're doing and plenty of others are doing the same thing? Hank Trent hanktrent@voyager.net --Last edited by hanktrent on 2007-11-05 11:36:19 -- |
| Bill moderator Posts : 1387 The original fence sitter ![]() |
Hank, I truly believe if more guys could watch a scenario from the otherside of the rope, they'd see how silly things can look sometimes. Just might be what it takes to get some people to clean up their act. Most people don't want to look foolish. This goes for both officers and privates. | ||||
| Bill Rodman King of Prussia, PA wrodman1@aol.com |
| Bill moderator Posts : 1387 The original fence sitter ![]() |
Julio, Any chance you could publish that picture, so people know what we've been talking about? | ||||
| Bill Rodman King of Prussia, PA wrodman1@aol.com |
| Julio C. Zangroniz Posts : 22 quote me accurately, dammit! |
Bill, Very soon, you will be able to see not only that photograph but also a few hundred more images from this year's edition of Cedar Creek. I hope to complete the editing/uploading process in a couple of days, due to other more pressing tasks that must be carried out first because they are wage-earners whereas CW reenactments for me are, generally, pro bono cases (though certainly not by design). But you will definitely see that photograph --in fact, I have more than a few views of the particular scenario, so everyone will be able to appreciate exactly what happened. Not a shining moment for the reenacting community, as I told a couple of high-level officers later that afternoon and that evening. All they could do was stare at the ground, shrug their shoulders and stammer half-hearted apologies. Mercifully, things worked out in far better fashion on Sunday, though it was a battle that no one would admit to having heard of before. Someone told me we would be recreating something that had been a rather minor skirmish between cavalry and artillery nearby, thus leaving the infantry commanders to scramble in order to find something for the footed troops to do (who constitute about 90 percent of the participants at Cedar Creek), and they did, and subsequently the men did very well indeed. The spectators loved the spectacle on Sunday, as their level of excitement was still incredibly high as I trudged off the field lugging a bag of ice that had been left abandoned. Lots of folks, thinking I was a member of the cast, extended congratulations and comments such as "good job!" or "thanks, you guys are terrific!" so I'm happy to pass those on to those who truly deserve them. Julio | |||
| Julio C. Zangroniz, Freelance Photojournalist |
| Bill moderator Posts : 1387 The original fence sitter ![]() |
Julio, Your experience with the spectators at Cedar Creeks sort of reflects what I've noticed in the past. Spectators don't seem too concerned if the scenario is "authentic" as long as it's realistic. | ||||
| Bill Rodman King of Prussia, PA wrodman1@aol.com |
| Julio C. Zangroniz Posts : 22 quote me accurately, dammit! |
Bill, That may be because most, if not all, of the spectators simply don't know enough to differentiate or know better. The public is there to enjoy the show, and as long as it isn't raining, or snowing, and there are plenty of funnel cakes and toy rifles and whatnot within reasonable reach, and at reasonable cost, they will be happy. When I go see a Broadway show, I expect to see and hear what the authors of "Fiddler on the Roof" or "Man of La Mancha" or whatever wrote when they created those plays. The key difference here is that I usually know how the original play, or music, was written. I know the plot. I know the characters. And that it is usually *professionals* presenting the spectacle to the paying public. That, obviously, is not the case at CW reenactments, and I can't honestly and realistically expect a *professional* performance from amateur actors (or re-enactors), but I can, and do, hope that they will do their best to be as faithful as possible to the scrïpt that was written --in the case of Cedar Creek-- in October 1864. And this year, that simply didn't happen. I, for one, felt cheated. Maybe it's a case of "wait 'till next year..."? On the other hand, what do WE get? Another battlefield preserved... or preserved to a greater degree than before... and that's enough for me. Julio | |||
| Julio C. Zangroniz, Freelance Photojournalist |
| Bill moderator Posts : 1387 The original fence sitter ![]() |
Julio, There are many reasons a scrïpted scenario might not be "authentic" I.E. not according to the historical record. Wrong land, wrong numbers, time constraints, people making honest mistakes (Been there, done that, got the T-shirt) are all reasons for a scenarios not being correct. IMHO, there is a lot less excuse for a scenario not being "realistic" I.E. just not looking right. Such things as taking a realistic number of hits, avoiding the use of camaras, maintaining reasonable ranges, and not making a joke of hand to hand combat fall into this category. I think every one of us have the responsibility to make a scenario look as realistic as possible. As individuals, we may not have much control of where we are sent, but we have a lot of control of what we do after we get there! The average spectator may not know the specific history of who attacked who and when they did it, but they do know what looks just plain silly. :/ | ||||
| Bill Rodman King of Prussia, PA wrodman1@aol.com |
| Julio C. Zangroniz Posts : 22 quote me accurately, dammit! |
Quite true, Bill. I am far from being a historical expert, but I do try to read up on whatever battle recreation I'm about to witness (and photograph) on a particular weekend, simply so I can have a better "handle" on what I'm about to see and experience. Cedar Creek is special, very special, to me. In my opinion, it may be because I was there for the very first reenactment of the battle (way back in the ancient days of 1990) as well as for nearly every succeeding living history program there until this year, except for one year when I was too ill and could not attend. I honestly can't explain why this battlefield feels so special to me... heck, my family didn't arrive to the new world until 1871 --and they landed elsewhere in a Caribbean island-- but, every year, I have tried to make a financial contribution for the preservation of Cedar Creek, and I have written/photographed story after story after story in support of its preservation. To me, Cedar Creek is my "home battlefield," even though I don't live in Virginia --it's more so than Gettysburg or Antietam, which are way closer to me, in the physical sense. But with Cedar Creek, I feel that I am actually *helping* to do something for a valuable piece of real estate. When I'm there, I feel like I'm stepping on the very blood of the many, many brave people who gave their all on those grounds in 1864. And my pitifully small input is my way of giving back to a country that has given me so much. I honestly don't know if I can convey accurately my feelings on this matter. But I definitely know that this event is most worthwhile, that it accomplishes a LOT for a very worthwhile cause, regardless of the petty arguments we may have about "authenticity" or the lack of thereof. That field must be preserved. Period. It must be. America has more than plenty of room for shopping malls and parking lots, so it has to do --WE must have to do-- what we can to preserve our history. Am I being a foolish idealistic fool? I hope not. And I certainly hope that enough members of the reenacting community continue to see the Battle of Cedar Creek that way and will continue to lend their resources and their presence to help preserve that battlefield. Julio | |||
| Julio C. Zangroniz, Freelance Photojournalist |
|
| ![]() | ![]() |
Get a free forum!
AceBoard Free Forum v 5.3
Download Premium Web Templates!