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chatrbug wrote : i wasnt ready for hardcore, nor do i think im ready.

I'll tell you, stepping up to hardcore is a cinch compared to what it was 17 or so years ago when I first got started in the hobby.  Today there are listserves for various hardcore events that help with the fellowshipping, mentoring, sharing of event specific research, and all sorts of things.  That's just another way that the computer has really helped the movement.

I first got really excited about reenacting while I was at Kent State University, and my history teacher (he was working toward his PhD) was a reenactor.  He started telling the class about some of the neat things he'd done and I asked him for assistance in finding someone to fall in with.  His group wouldn't accept single ladies (the other ladies were afraid we'd pick off their husbands or something). So anyway, he recommended the 3rd Division Hospital out of central and NE Ohio.

I was told that I'd have to pass through a baptism of fire, which meant that I had to knock them off their rocker with first person.  Talk about being scared...  Well, I studied up the best I could and then along came the Major -- a man who was solidly against women in his hospital.  He rained fire and brimstone on me till I cried, and two of the members got him to back off of me.  While it was a tough initiation I passed through with flying colors, and became a member of the hospital. The hospital disbanded shortly thereafter due to other circumstances, but it made me the person that I am today.

This doesn't happen at the first person type events anymore, I'm not sure that it happened at other places then either, but it did at that particular time and place. That was my first real event.

Now-a-days, since the EBUFU movement really began (around Outpost 2000, for the civilians), we have yahoogroups with all the things I mentioned above: fellowshipping, mentoring, sharing of event specific research, and all sorts of things.  We set up events so that people are most likely to succeed at what they do.  We know who the new people are and try to encourage them to participate in conversations and such, while at the same time never trying to trip them up or make them look like fools.  

We've had really new people come over to the dark side and they blend in so much that we never think to ourselves -- oh, there's that new person.  

I remember an 11 year old girl that was with us at War on the James.  She was going to portray my daughter and her father would be deceased.  Hank was going to be courting me, and her character was to be jealous and try to come between us every chance she got.  When the event was over I mentioned how I thought she was going to try to come between us, and she replied that she did.  She asked for stories, she mentioned spiders, and asked all kinds of questions that, as her mother, I thought she'd know the answers to.  She asked me why I thought she was doing all that.  Everytime Hank and I so much as looked at one another she came up with something listed above.  She was such a natural that I didn't even notice when she was doing it.

Kids are great at immersion events (at least 90% of the time).  They have the concept of "tea parties," "dress up," and "playing house..."  Yes, occasionally you have to gently remind them that their favorite super-hero isn't appropriate, or some such, and generally they get the idea and slip back into character.

Well, this is getting rather lengthy, so I'll close for now.

Linda Trent
lindatrent@zoomnet.net  

--Last edited by Linda Trent on 2007-09-27 09:38:04 --

is this to try talking me into hardcore? im going to see what events are around me next season and may try a couple as civilians.

i believe i have found out why im scared of taking that step up the ladder... alls it took was reading a post in another forum. i know not everyone hardcore is like that, but i see it more and more often than not.

Hi Dulcie,

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is this to try talking me into hardcore?

I'd love to see everyone try a hardcore event, but then even not all hardcore events are equal.  

You'll probably have to leave your state to find the kind of event that I described.  Right now I only know of about two of them for next year (one's in northern Georgia next April, and the other in Missouri Marmaduke's Raid) there may be others. I'll have to look up the date of Marmy's raid.  

But if you wanna save your dollars up, there may be another big Kentucky civilian event in 2009, it's in the twinkling of an eye state right now, awaiting word from the boss man out that way, and the possible coordinator.

That's all I know about the event at this time.  But I'll let you know more when and/if the idea actually catches.  Needless to say, there will be character building, activities to keep everyone busy all weekend, and a really good immersion experience for those who wanna give it a try.  Keep your fingers crossed that it goes off.

I'd love to know which post on which forum you're describing.  It's probably something I wrote.  If you don't feel comfortable posting it here, send me a private email lindatrent@zoomnet.net

Linda.  

--Last edited by Linda Trent on 2007-10-02 18:09:49 --

In case I missed something, what is in N. GA in April?

Trust me, I'm scared to go to mainstream events, because I've experienced plenty of hatred and insults from mainstreamers. It's not like mainstreamers are all nice; most are, just like most hardcores are, but all it takes is one to make your life miserable. I go to some mainstream events anyway, despite of it, but always with some hesitancy.

I think it's all what you're used to. There's a certain percentage of the population who are hostile, and all you have to do is run into them and be in the category of people they hate, and you're the target. I've not found any guaranteed escape, other than always trying to be around people who think as you do. Or pretending to be like the people you're around rather than being yourself, which isn't much fun.

I'm sure my fear of mainstreamers seems as silly to people who happily attend mainstream events, as fear of hardcores seems to the people who happily attend c/p/h events.

But for me, the problem is real. The only time in my life I've had to get a lawyer to write a cease-and-desist letter, was against a mainstreamer (actually an authenticist), who wouldn't stop spreading lies about me. I've come close to the same problem other times as well.

The only solution I've found is to try to find people who enjoy the same thing you do. If you're happy at mainstream events, then keep at it. If you want to do something else, and really want to for its own sake, then I think you'll find that most c/p/h reenactors will help and encourage you, and you'll soon move beyond the stage where you're vulnerable to criticism from the others.

I think what c/p/h reenactors find the most frustrating, or at least I do, are reenactors who simultaneously congratulate themselves about their accuracy while only attending the kind of events where it's easy to be as accurate as anyone there. As Eli Geery said in another thread, nobody is really truly accurate, but if one wants to explore how close reenactors are trying to get, it helps to see what's being done at events where people have put in a lot of effort trying to push the envelope. Not everyone may want to do that, just depends.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

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toptimlrd wrote : In case I missed something, what is in N. GA in April?

It's actually a small pre-war (1857) event that hasn't been announced yet, but we heard about it from one of the coordinators.

If anyone's truly interested in making the jump from mainstream to an immersion event, I'd be willing to contact the coordinator and see if I can get him/her in, and Hank or I act as mentor.
 
However, it just occured to me that I may not be available that weekend as the Ohio Genealogical Society is having their annual meeting in late April and I can't miss the meeting.  A family history I published in July is being considered for the William H. and Benjamin Harrison Award that will be handed out the weekend of the 18th and 19th.

Linda.

linda.. you were in the conversation but it wasnt because of you.

so theres only a few hardcore events over near or in pa?  wouldnt lack of events have others going mainstream just so they can reenact? if i could be at an event every weekend of the summer i would be happy (okay i would even take spring and fall...not prepared for winter!), not that my hubby would be happy about that. which is why if i ever go hardcore, it will be me and the kiddos.   i wish i could make the one coming up... i couldnt quite get him talked into letting me and the girls go though. but i did try! perhaps i can get it on my calender for next yr.

Wow! I actually said hardcore, didn't I?  Hmm, I'm gonna have to kick myself for that one.  What I was describing wasn't just hardcore, more specifically immersion-style events.  Basically all immersion events are hardcore, but not all hardcore events are immersion.

You may find hardcore folk who are doing first or third person interpretation to the public, or doing school presentations, round table discussions, etc.  What makes them different than other events is the clothing, the material culture and the overall knowledge about the war.  You can probably find events like that in the Pennsylvania area.  Check with Bill Watson or someone like that about upcoming LHs, and see if there's any need of good civilian impressions. I forgot, but normally when you do things with new groups they do usually give a person a mentor.  That's not something exclusive to hardcore events.

However, the extent of what I was talking about the fellowshipping, mentoring, yahoogroups, sharing of event specific research, discussing what activities there will be(cooking, mending, caring for the livestock, working an inn ...)and all sorts of things, is something that is very important for those who wish to do more than dip their toes into the waters of reenacting; and totally immerse themselves.  

Yeah, it's not 100% perfect, but the really good immersion events really do give the illusion that one has stepped back in time.  An illusion that is difficult to comprehend till one's tried it.  These are the illusive events, the ones that are few and far between.  Why?  Because for the most part they take nearly a year of preparation on behalf of the organizer and the participants.  Researching, making clothes or gear, etc.

Just because I haven't heard of any upcoming immersion-style events in Pennsylvania doesn't mean they don't exist or you can't try to pull something together.  I'm usually pretty up on these things, and I just haven't heard of anything other than what I mentioned.

To give you an idea of the distances that we travel to get to some of the immersion events (or carpe'eventums) the events we have or will have attended between November 2006 and ending in January 2008 include driving distances of 148 miles for the Trial event, 246, 281, 336, 344, 500, 500, 509, 647, and that doesn’t include having to turn down BGR 770, and an immersion event in Texas 1,015 miles. The latter due to a conflicting event the same weekend. Sure we had a few closer ones, but as you can see, sometimes it takes driving great distances to get to have "fun."

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wouldnt lack of events have others going mainstream just so they can reenact?

Depends.  A lot of people who turn to immersion have done so because of their own frustrations and boredom with having done the same thing for years and years.  My first real year of reenacting I did over 20 events including Wilson's Creek 135th in Missouri, and about 7 other states.  After that the number of events gradually decreased due to boredom.  

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i couldnt quite get him talked into letting me and the girls go though. but i did try! perhaps i can get it on my calender for next yr.

That's the problem with events like this, they generally aren't annuals. But there's typically something going on over in Virginia if not in Pennsylvania.

Well, that was long winded.  I hope I answered your questions,

Linda Trent  

--Last edited by Linda Trent on 2007-10-02 23:00:07 --

yes you answered my questions.

i would definitely need a mentor to help me with the immersion. thats something new for me.

Dulcie, don't worry... it's not as hard or as scary as you might think.  One cool thing about immersion situations is that everyone is working to support one another in the roles.  While I know some social groups like to try and trip one another up in a competitive way (EEK!), I've not found that attitude from "hardcores" and in immersion situations.  This is handy--it means that you don't have to know *everything*--you're allowed to just be silent or ask for help, rather than being forced into a position where you have to "prove" yourself.  (I can remember how unpleasant that was--for me, it was during an 'etiquette competition' at a mainstream-style event, where the organizers weren't actually using mid-century norms as the judging guideline!  Talk about frustrating!!)

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ElizabethStewartClark wrote : This is handy--it means that you don't have to know *everything*--you're allowed to just be silent or ask for help, rather than being forced into a position where you have to "prove" yourself.

Good example was at the trial event this summer. I was portraying an upper-class lawyer, way out of my normal comfort zone, and I'd studied how to prepare and argue a case, but I don't have all that upper-class generic background knowledge to fill in with small talk between court sessions.

At meals, when I was sitting with the other upper-class people, I was hopelessly outdone. They were quoting long passages of Shakespeare, talking about their trip to China, and so forth. Just didn't think my usual generic stories about barn raisings and possums and drunken sprees was going to fit.

But the nice thing was, I could just keep quiet and enjoy the ambiance, and contribute when a subject came up that I could comment on. I'd read up on the college I'd supposedly attended and could comment on a professor there that they were talking about, and could tell a few generic stories that could be switched to a setting of "when we were at Blue Lick Springs," a notable fancy hotel nearby.

But other than the trial itself where I knew I had a job to do and had made it my priority to prepare, there was no pressure and no attempt that I saw to catch anyone. In fact, it would be counter-productive, because the goal is to create a period ambiance for everyone, not to destroy it.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

well... if anyone wants to mentor me.. just let me know! if i can talk dh into letting me go, im going to go down to Harpers Ferry in Dec... Noah somehow talked me into it. need to figure out how far it is first.

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chatrbug wrote : well... if anyone wants to mentor me.. just let me know! if i can talk dh into letting me go, im going to go down to Harpers Ferry in Dec... Noah somehow talked me into it. need to figure out how far it is first.

I went to Harpers Ferry Christmas last year, and that's a good example of an event with Authenticists Who Scare Me.    No common ground for me there. Normally I feel safe if I have a friend to back me up at all times, but even that didn't help last year.

I think you'll have fun because you won't be perceived as a threat to the pecking order, and Noah's great to hang out with, and that part of Virginia-Maryland seems to have some of the best spectators anywhere, who ask intelligent questions. I'd even go again if there was more period stuff to do overnight, but it's pretty much a daytime-only event, with everybody totally modern after hours.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

thanks hank... that made me feel oh so good about going lol.

Honestly, you won't have any trouble, coming from mainstream to authenticist. If you don't try to be more accurate than the norm, I think you'll get along just fine with the other reenactors. The public is great regardless. Had some absolutely wonderful moments of "connecting" across the centuries.

Just be prepared for the reenactors to get really modern at night--I'm talking sweatpants, microwaves and DVDs.

Hint: if you want a more period atmosphere in the evenings, and don't mind being alone, try going upstairs to the restored boarding house on the main street. It's unlocked fairly late, with way cool period furnishings in the parlor, and last year there were no other reenactors around to interfere with the atmosphere after hours. I sat on the period couch and read "Mosses from an Old Manse" and had a great time alone there for a while.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

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hanktrent wrote :   It's pretty much a daytime-only event, with everybody totally modern after hours.

Hank,

That's actually a pretty common form of spectator living history. The participants are "on" during spectator hours, but are free to do their own thing in the evening. This sort of event sort've fits my temperment and I'll normally attend two or three of them every season.

It strikes me that this might be a good way to put your toe into doing first person impressions without the pressure of being "on" for the entire weekend.

I have to say I've never attended an event that included microwaves, DVD's, and sweat pants. Pretty tough to do when you are trying to maintain a period correct campsite!  

I saw propane heated showers once upon a time at Cedar Creek.

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GrumpyDave wrote : I saw propane heated showers once upon a time at Cedar Creek.

Grump,

There's some people attending Cedar Creek, who aren't too concerned about maintaining a period correct camp. In fact, there's a few who don't seem too interested in maintaining a period correct anything!

Sometimes, even I wonder, "Jeez, what are these people thinking?" and I have a pretty high threshold for pain.  

Having said that, I'll be in Middletown in two weeks.    

I have also seen at Cedar Creek (artillery unit) a complete breakfast buffet setup with propane gas cookers etc etc....eggs to order