In the Feb 2008, Civil War Times, there was a article about "The Good Death" and how the soldiers/citizens of the 19th Century were more prepared for death than our modern sensiblilities.  It was an interesting article, because it talked about how death was something these people dealt with on a regular basis.  Whereas many of us today fear death and do everything we can to seperate ourselves from it.

In the book "Dressed for the Photographer: Ordinary Americans and Fashion" 1840-1900 (Hardcover)by Joan L. Severa (Author)
there are the images of the deceased and how it was not unusual to take images of them.  Even my wife's family were doing this when she went to an uncles funeral down in LA back in the early 80s.

The article also did a good job of tying in a person's religous beliefs to the idea of being ready to die.  

From the letters of Charles S Worsham (4th Texas Co E):
Poor Ned, he has long since been sleeping beneath the cold silent sod, and the heart once beating big with patriotism is pulseless in the chamber of death. I never knew how I loved him until now he is gone and I miss him from my side in the carnage and strife of the red battlefield, where his cheering words were always heard “Sam, aim low and stick to your company.” And when he left me lying on the battlefield at Gaines Farm, he was so true to duty that he merely sighed and went on, but to fall in a few moments himself, while bearing two of the Enemie’s flags from the field. Poor fellow, his dream of ambition and fame is over. Sleep noble born boy, sleep in Peace.

http://commonground.aceboard.com/249612-4867-1814-0-Letters-Worsham.htm

A while back, the MOC had a display of postmortem photos of young children. I understand the desire to have a memory, but those photos really whigged me out.  

--Last edited by Bill on 2008-01-02 12:57:27 --

In the "Dressed" book above and also in: An Introduction to Civil War Civilians by Juanita Leisch, there are some of those types of photos.  And it does seem weird, but yet we can look at the battlefield photos from the sunken road or bloody lane or Gettysburg and be ok.

At a living history, I once did the whole write my name on a slip of paper and then was stitching it to my coat because there was "talk of a battle" the next day.  It actually drew some spectators over to see what I was doing.  

http://www.boatswain.nl  has a lot of postmortem pictures of children, they have been adding adults to it now.  You do have to register now. And warning.. they are postmortem, some are not all that pretty, some can be hard to look at... and a lot of them will get to your heart. Its a hard page to look at, though you may find it hard to draw yourself away too.  

--Last edited by chatrbug on 2008-01-02 18:00:39 --

Quote :

lhsnj wrote : In the book "Dressed for the Photographer: Ordinary Americans and Fashion" 1840-1900 (Hardcover)by Joan L. Severa (Author) there are the images of the deceased and how it was not unusual to take images of them.

It must seem strange to us in the 21st century where photography is so common that now-a-days technology allows us to carry a camera everywhere as part of our cell phones.

Today a lady goes in to the hospital and has a baby.  Before
an hour's even up someone has snapped a picture of the baby. Before he/she's a year old there are professional photographs all over the house not to mention all the Kodak pictures taken on a 35mm or digital camera.  It won't be long before the 35mm is a thing of the past.  

But in the 19th century photographs were much rarer and dearer.  When loved ones died there was a possibility that they'd never had their picture taken before, particularly the very young, or the very old.  A post mortem may be the only photographic evidence that little Billy or Sally was ever born, a lasting keepsake of someone's dear little angel gone all too soon.  When we think of it that way, the pictures must have been a sort of comfort to those who were left behind to mourn.

When soldiers went off to war, their loved ones wanted photographs of them, probably in part to remember them during the war, but also no doubt in the event of their untimely death.

Linda Trent
lindatrent@zoomnet.net  

--Last edited by Linda Trent on 2008-01-02 19:35:31 --

I know Ive read several diarys that talk about having a likeness made before a certain person left.

Linda.. whats a 35mm? lol.. Im kidding.. I barely remember using one

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Linda Trent wrote :  It must seem strange to us in the 21st century where photography is so common that now-a-days technology allows us to carry a camera everywhere as part of our cell phones. Today a lady goes in to the hospital and has a baby.  Before an hour's even up someone has snapped a picture of the baby. Before he/she's a year old there are professional photographs all over the house not to mention all the Kodak pictures taken on a 35mm or digital camera.  It won't be long before the 35mm is a thing of the past.   But in the 19th century photographs were much rarer and dearer.  When loved ones died there was a possibility that they'd never had their picture taken before, particularly the very young, or the very old.  A post mortem may be the only photographic evidence that little Billy or Sally was ever born, a lasting keepsake of someone's dear little angel gone all too soon.  When we think of it that way, the pictures must have been a sort of comfort to those who were left behind to mourn. When soldiers went off to war, their loved ones wanted photographs of them, probably in part to remember them during the war, but also no doubt in the event of their untimely death. Linda Trent lindatrent@zoomnet.net

Linda

I think you are right about the 35mm, I still have my Dad's Minolta that I used for pictures before I got my digital camera.


In fact I used it to take photos of my son when he was first born, and then forgot to get the roll developed until almost 6months later.  It was funny to send them away and get the pictures back.  But I digress..

Also it would seem odd to some of us today to hold a wake in our homes like they used to do.  We so want to be seperated from the idea that we will all die, that we don't want it in our homes.  Yet, these soldiers talk about being prepared to die.

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lhsnj wrote : Also it would seem odd to some of us today to hold a wake in our homes like they used to do.  We so want to be seperated from the idea that we will all die, that we don't want it in our homes.  Yet, these soldiers talk about being prepared to die.

Is that the reason that we don't hold wakes in homes?  I thought it was because today people tend to die in hospitals, and the law requires that bodies for burial be embalmed and that happens at the funeral home.  Besides, funeral homes are bigger and have more room for hundreds of people, and parking, and can more easily arrange for the transportation of the coffin and funeral procession to the cemetery today.

I don't believe that we separate ourselves from death any more than they did back then.  It's just that society has changed.  Today we find it more efficient for both the husband and wife to go out and get a job, and to pay someone to care for our loved ones.  

With the improved transportation and the outward growth of towns doctors seldom make house calls anymore. It is more practical for the doctor to stay in one place where he can continually see patients (rather than lose hours of travel time driving to a patient's home). Now we bundle up our loved ones, put them in the car, turn on the heater and we're at the doctor's or the hospital normally within an hour.  

And then in addition today we have controlled drugs, whereas morphine, laudanum, and other such substances were available over the counter in the 1860s.  Today, we have turned to admitting our loved ones into retirement facilities or nursing homes that are fully equipped to handle most any situation. Staffed with professionals, a doctor on-call, and drugs necessary to care for our loved ones until they pass.

If anything I think what we fear most today is the uncertainty of how we'll die.  Will it be quick and painless, or slow and lingering?  Will it be through some form of violence?  Or by illness?  But I'm sure that even 150 years ago those were very real fears.  Death was/is a separation of loved ones, and it is not something that I believe one is ever truly prepared for no matter what century one's in.

Linda  

--Last edited by Linda Trent on 2008-01-03 20:20:46 --

Linda

You may be right, I was going just on the impression I get when people pack up their loved ones and move them out of the house to be cared for.  Out of sight out of mind.

But to bring us back to the topic of the Good Death, being at home surrounded by loved ones and all affairs in order, and that those last dying words to be recorded for posterity.  And how the war brought a change to that with family members dying miles from home.  And how in the letters home, soldiers tried to assure the kin that they had been prepared.

http://library.morrisville.edu/local_history/civil_war/may_25.html

From Captain Charles E. Tucker to the York Family from New Orleans, Louisiana.
Captain Tucker, of Company G, sends his condolences to the York family.

New Orleans. La. May 25 1863
Mr & Mrs Z. York
    Dr. Friends.
                    It is with great pain I am in
duty bound to refer your feelings again to the death
of your son Galutia.  When it occurred, the Co
was near Alexandria & I was in Genl Hospital at
Franklin.  I saw him last a few days before his death
when I came down to Brashear City   he greeted me cheer-
fully.  I made the remark that he was looking better than
he had been.  he said he thought he was doing well.
        I told him to take care of himself & make him-
self comfortable as possible.  He was then in camp.
When I came down to Brashear on the removal of the
Hospital at Franklin, I was astonished to learn from
the lips of his Uncle, that Galutia was dead.  From
the symptoms as described to me & the suddeness, I
am led to believe he must have had a disease of the
heart.  I have not been officially notified yet of
his death & cannot say what the Surgeons assign
as the cause of it.

His accounts shall be made out & a statement
sent to you at the earliest moment.  Also I will
send by Express his little articles of interest to you.
   The Regiment is now on the way to the bloody
field of Port Hudson.  I shall join it here & go up.
All our baggage & books are left behind & so
you see I cannot get at the affairs of the boys until
we go to camp again ___
     Galutia was always a good boy.  an in-
telligent, obedient, uncomplaining, welldrilled
Sol-
dier.  & though he never faced the enemy, yet we
know he would have done it had Providence allowed
him to have been with us.  He has fallen, in the
service of his country.  He lies buried in his uniform
he fills a patriot soldiers grave.  & for aught we
know to the contrary.  like a Christian who has well
done his duty.  & finished truly his full tho short
term of life.  he is today awaiting us in a land
where sickness & death are "felt afeared no more"
     His conduct was not at all derogatory
of his early religious training he received from his
mother & we may hope that his hand, instead of
grasping the glittering bayonet, is waving a ___ of
victory - a victory over all foes, all pain, all

changes & chances of time.  Oh! who would
not exchange time for eternity - sickness for
eternal youth & vigor, night for endless day.  Earth
for heaven.  Then, friends, do not mourn -
at least not as those without hope.  Reflect
that your loss great as it is, is infinitely great
in gain to him.  I remember your tears as
you gave him to my charge.  Well, he has left
us all but then, he might have died at home.
    God foresaw his enlistment, his soldier's
life, & his death, all at the time you nursed
him in your arms as a child.  Then do not com-
plain at a Father who is above & beyond you.  his
father - "God gave, & he hath taken away."  "It is the
Lord's will."  "he doeth all things well."  He sees our
whole lives & all the circumstances of life  "work together
for good to them that love him.  But it is not for one
like me to advise you to a course of feeling & thinking which
your own religion will already have suggested to you.
    Adjutant Underhill, Lieuts Searle & Corbin & the whole
Co. desire me to express to you their sympathy with your grief.
And now I close.  with regards to yourself & friends,
I am, Respectfully, Your Son's Friend & Captain
                            Charles E. Tucker.

Greg,

I'd like to apologize for the rudeness of my opening sentence, it was supposed to have a smilie after it that would show it was somewhat sarcastic.  I got distracted and sent the message before adding the smilie, sorry.

But I do think that this is an excellent topic. So much so that Hank and I spent well over an hour today while traveling discussing care of the elderly, and the young both in the 19th and 21st century, and it also caused me to do some research into some interesting things.

I'll add some of our thoughts once I get them organized.  Thanks, and as I said, a great topic.

Linda.

I have been unable to find the reference where this was read, but painted portraits of infants that are surrounded by clouds are post mortem portraits.  A museum where I once worked had such a painting and in the display case underneath the painting was the clothing the child was wearing.

Like most everything else, modern life has "sanitized" death. As Linda indicated, we hire people to care for children and the elderly. Elderly are either cared for in their own homes (if it's an option) or in nursing homes or retirement communities. With the growth of the funeral business you don't see the body laid out in the front parlor anymore. Of course, part of that is due to local ordinances regulating disposal of bodies.

I still recall accompanying my rural-raised mother to the home of one of her neighbors when I was about 4 or 5, only to see a body laid out in one of the larger rooms of the house. Never saw the like again. I had an old maiden great aunt who died back in 2000. Darned if one of my cousins, who's a little off her nut, anyway, didn't take a post-mortem photo if my aunt in the casket. It definitely freaked a more than a few people out!

Quote :

Linda Trent wrote : Greg, I'd like to apologize for the rudeness of my opening sentence, it was supposed to have a smilie after it that would show it was somewhat sarcastic.  I got distracted and sent the message before adding the smilie, sorry. But I do think that this is an excellent topic. So much so that Hank and I spent well over an hour today while traveling discussing care of the elderly, and the young both in the 19th and 21st century, and it also caused me to do some research into some interesting things. I'll add some of our thoughts once I get them organized.  Thanks, and as I said, a great topic. Linda.

Linda

No problem, I took it as somewhat sarcastic.  This topic also has generated some discussion in our house with my wife and I.  And she linked it back to a discussion she had in one of her english classes she taught about Childrens literature and the Grimm Fairy tales and some of the older children's stories that are still with us today.

Thanks

Quote :

lhsnj wrote : It was an interesting article, because it talked about how death was something these people dealt with on a regular basis.  Whereas many of us today fear death and do everything we can to seperate ourselves from it.

I promised to tell a bit about what Hank and I discussed a few days ago.  I haven't forgotten, it's just so complex it's hard to put into writing, but I figured I might as well give it a go and then we can add to it.

We talk about death as something that we try to separate ourselves from by putting our elders into nursing home facilities, but what about life?  Do we separate ourselves from it?  In the 1860s children were, for the most part, born at home with family around (possibly or possibly not a doctor or a midwife).  Children were raised and cared for at home, by the same members of the family that cared for the elderly.

Today we go to the hospital and have children, and as soon as possible we hand them off to day-care and Mom goes off to work.  A person I know quite well lived outside of DC and worked in the city.  He woke up the baby at 6:30 in the morning, drove him to day-care, left him there with a whole bunch of other kids, caught the subway and was at work at 9:00.  The same process only in reverse was done so the child was back with his parents at about 7:30 at night.  Just enough time to get him bathed and put to bed and start all over again the next morning, (except of course for weekends).  

Back to death:

Of course also in the 19th century what was the alternative to caring for our loved ones at home?  Nursing homes are a modern concept coming in around 1950, and before that there was always the poor house or the infirmary, neither which resembled anything like the retirement/nursing facilities that we have today.  Poor houses especially were decrepit old buildings with inadequate care.  

I have a journal of my gg grandfather (I) that talks about the valiant efforts made by himself and his son-in-law (David) in trying to save my g grandmother (Anna) from cancer in 1903.  They went out and purchased an x-ray machine.

Quote :

January 9, 1903 Anna went this PM & took x-ray treatment. January 10, 1903 Anna very poorly to day.  The ride to the Doctors yesterday seems to have hurt her. January 15, 1903 David & I went to see Dr. Williver about putting in Electricity.  He agreed to contribute $100. and the treatment free of chg if I would pay the rest and let him have the machinery estimated about $250.00 in all besides setting up... January 20.  Dr. Welliver & I visited Dr --- of Centi [Cincinnati]  Also Electrical Appratus Store and decided to move his x ray machine up to treat Anna. January 28. Dr. Welliver called away before the x ray treatment was completed and I finished it all right.

Granted the above is 40 years out of date for the Civil War, but can you imagine today going out and purchasing a private x-ray machine, let alone have the doctor called away and be able to finish the treatments yourself?  Modern medicine has gotten to the point that our loved ones have more professional care at hospitals and homes than they would with their own family.  I don't think it's so much we're separating ourselves from death, or we're afraid of it, as it is other people are now more qualified to watch over, administer medicines, note physical changes, know what's important and what isn't, etc. than we are.

My mother's at a retirement/nursing center in NE Ohio.  It's a magnificent new facility with large, bright rooms.  Just outside her interior door and down about three doors is a 8 foot waterfall into a goldfish pond with rocks surrounding it.  She has people her own age, she has people who keep an eye on her round the clock, two daughters who between a 15 and 45 minute drive.  She gets three square meals on the table prepared by a real chef and approved by a nutritionist.  To be honest a lot of the time I want to trade places with her.  

But seriously, I think all any generation wants is to give their elders a better way of life.  Well, that's all for now.  I'll open it to further discussion.  

Linda.  

--Last edited by Linda Trent on 2008-01-10 11:59:40 --

Linda,

I see one major difference between death today, compared to the 19th. Century. People in those days just saw a lot more death and were more accepting of it being Gods's will. It was a rare family where every child lived until adulthood, not to mention the number of women who died during childbirth. Death was much more a part of life than it is today.

I see another difference that's more difficult to define. From my reading, for soldiers who were killed in combat, it seemed  people felt it was a sad thing when the soldier was killed outright and didn't have an opportunity to say his last goodbyes to friends and family. In the modern context, the quick death is considered far better than a lingering end.      

There was an excellent program on NPR's Fresh Air yesterday, with Drew Gilpin Faust, History professor and president of Harvard. She discussed her book Republic of Suffering: Death and the American Civil War.

To listen to the archived interview, go to:

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13&prgDate=9-Jan-08

Bill -

Your last statement was addressed during the interview. One excerpt that was read was from a letter where the son wrote his father to inform him this letter would be his last and said that the father "would be delighted" to receive it. Presumably because the son was able to relate that he would die well.  

--Last edited by forquer on 2008-01-10 12:50:02 --

Quote :

Bill wrote : Linda, I see one major difference between death today, compared to the 19th. Century. People in those days just saw a lot more death and were more accepting of it being Gods's will. It was a rare family where every child lived until adulthood, not to mention the number of women who died during childbirth. Death was much more a part of life than it is today. I see another difference that's more difficult to define. From my reading, for soldiers who were killed in combat, it seemed  people felt it was a sad thing when the soldier was killed outright and didn't have an opportunity to say his last goodbyes to friends and family. In the modern context, the quick death is considered far better than a lingering end.

Bill

That was what I was trying to convey in the beginning was the idea that it in the 19th Century death was very common and it was addressed even at a young age.  Children on a farm saw animals come and go and knew what happened to them.  

In our modern society, death is something that is seen more on tv and in the news, but not happening in your life every day.  I guess like Linda said, it is a complex topic that is diffcult to put to words and writing.  

In my 33 years, I have been to 5 - 6 funerals, whereas someone of my age in the 19th century may have seen that by the time he was 16.


Greg, that is the person who wrote the article in the CWTI magazine that sparked the whole idea for this thread.

Thanks for the link.

Quote :

In our modern society, death is something that is seen more on tv and in the news, but not happening in your life every day.  I guess like Linda said, it is a complex topic that is diffcult to put to words and writing.   In my 33 years, I have been to 5 - 6 funerals, whereas someone of my age in the 19th century may have seen that by the time he was 16.

Greg, I know what you are saying, but it has to be different for everyone.  I'm 43 and I have been around death as long as I can remember.  I've been a pall bearer at least 6 times or more. That's not including my being in charge of funerals for my company while it was in Iraq.  I can honestly say if you see it a lot, you sort of get a "routine feeling" on the inside.  I can't explain it though.  Yes, I feel sad like everyone else, but the "it's a part of life" thing begins to enter your subconscience.  

Does anyone else know what I'm talking about?

I think in the long run we're agreeing with each other, just in different ways.

To me, the people of the 19th century were forced to deal with death more, it wasn't a choice it was a matter of life. Yes, child mortality was higher, and elders died at home -- but again, what was the alternative at that time?

The coming of the 20th century brought about a better understanding of diseases and along with that came the introduction of antibiotics. We've lowered child mortality, and we've extended the average life expectancy.  

The industrial revolution came and America went from an agrarian society to an urban society.  And people moved into the cities and away from the farm.  The influx of immigrants (growth of America) and the improvement of roads, as I stated in my previous post, made it more economical and practical for the doctors to work from an office instead of making house calls.

The laws began to require that bodies be embalmed and health regulations, ease and practicality eventually took the wake from the home to the funeral parlor. And the final blow to change society was when women began to enter the work force in mass; the elderly (and young) were handed off to someone else to care for, whether at home or away.  

I think we're handing off our loved ones because they can get better round the clock care from health care professionals,  they're closer to doctors, and to the medical equipment and such that they require, etc.  I agree that the 19th century people may have been more intimate with death, and they accepted it as a way of life, but I argue that they didn't have a choice anymore than we do today.

Linda.

Ken and Linda

Thanks for your input.  And I think you are right, we are all agreeing just saying it differently.

As a side note and to bring it back to the letters home, I was wondering if anyone has other examples of the letters sent to home about being ready to die, or writing of a lost soldier.. something like the couple mentioned above.

Or even from a family member writing to a soldier about someone at home passing on..  

--Last edited by lhsnj on 2008-01-10 23:08:58 --