On July 2nd 1863, there were only 67 men in the 116th PA, fighting in the Wheatfield. Although there were 135 present for the battle, the rest were guarding prisoners. The 83rd PA had 285 effectives and were commanded by a Captian. 1st Minnesota 287. The list goes on and on for units that had served since the "beginning." What we need to see are numbers that are proper for the senerio or, unit sizes that are proper for the number of attendees.

I can beat that -- according to the after action report of General George S. Green, Second Division, Twelfth Corps, at Antietam, "The First District of Columbia Volunteers had, with the exception of the colonel and adjutant, entirely disappeared from the command by sickness and desertion."

Oddly enough, you see that impression at nearly every big reenactment.

How many effectives did they have on July 1st? A lot more than they had on July 2nd?

I see lot's of excuses and reasons for reenacting small units....whether they be 44 man brigades or 127 rifle regiments.

We put over 400 rifles on the field at G135.....that's almost man for man with the 24th Michigan that we were portraying.

The average size for a Federal Regiment at Gettysburg was in the mid 300's right? so for every 157th NY there was a 14th Vermont? That's why I cited the mid 350's number....

So has anyone figured out why cphers reenact the 7th Wisconsin instead of the 6th Wisconsin? The 7th wore sack coats.....the 6th wore Frocks. The 7th carried rebored to .577 Lorenz Rifle Muskets.....the 6th Wisconsin carried .58 caliber M1861 Springfield's.  just another cpher-ism.

How many effectives did they have on July 1st? A lot more than they had on July 2nd?



We put over 400 rifles on the field at G135.....that's almost man for man with the 24th Michigan that we were portraying. Don't forget the nearly 30 rifles from the 24th were with the Brigade Guard (which ended up fighting with the 6th WVI).

The average size for a Federal Regiment at Gettysburg was in the mid 300's right? so for every 157th NY there was a 14th Vermont? That's why I cited the mid 350's number....

So has anyone figured out why cphers reenact the 7th Wisconsin instead of the 6th Wisconsin? The 7th wore sack coats.....the 6th wore Frocks. The 7th carried rebored to .577 Lorenz Rifle Muskets.....the 6th Wisconsin carried .58 caliber M1861 Springfield's.  just another cpher-ism.  

--Last edited by grumpydave on 2007-08-27 06:44:38 --

RJ,

The boys are looking forward to hearing you toot the horn next June. If memory serves me, the guiding impression is the 1st Minnesota. I can't wait for the black hats vs forage caps discussion this time around.

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Joey21stga wrote : Something I notice on the campiagn side is forced accents for first person. German- Don't hear it alot but have heard this gutteral yelling botched German accent like something from Hogan's heroes at a couple of things Irish- anytime I hear someone do this I just wanna steal their lucky charms and by that I mean kick them in the crotch Southern- I am southern and I hate to hear anyone try and fake this accent. They either end up doing some Gone with the Wind genteeeeel BS or sound like they come out of deliverance. Leave my accent alone!

Amen, Brother!
I am an East Texas boy, and you either have the accent, or you don't!  

The finer accents of accents also come into play.  My Mississippi Gulf Coast is decidedly different from the south Louisiana Cajun.  The same comparison can be made between the Texan and the mountain region of Tennesse or North Carolina.  If there is a bottom line to what is generically tossed out as being a southern drawl, it is those tonal patterns are tough for Hollywood (or elsewhere) to fake.

Bully RJ on the specialty impressions! I would love to see an accurate zouave unit take the field(may have happened and I just missed it).
I think that is my big one. Things that the CPH side hates that the MS does that in some cases should be done. EG: tents, dismounted cav, zouaves, etc. Though I will say that it seems to be getting better.

Chris,

You really need to get out more.

It's "Unmounted" cavalry. "Dismounted" implies that you actually have a horse somewhere on the field. There exists, historical records of Cavalry units, fighiting sans horses(mostly on the Corn-fed side). At an event, portraying something, battle, march, camp, where those units actually, historically participated, would be OK with me.  But, there shouldn't be any unmounted Cavalry at a Gettysburg event, for example. The stuff I've seen, maybe because the group(s) didn't know the drill or the history, just looked goofy. Ten or 12 guys who walk into the middle of a fight, "We're Dismounted Cavalry," just so they can burn powder. At the last big Cedar Creek, these 8 or 10 unmounted dudes, walked right through the Belle Grove property, climbed the fence, walked onto the field and, started shooting blanks. Folks wonder why those type of impressions get a bad name. Then there's You-Tube, oh, my, God. What folks post there is embarrasing to all of us. Makes me grumpy.  

--Last edited by grumpydave on 2007-09-28 11:56:25 --

Quote :

GrumpyDave wrote : It's "Unmounted" cavalry. "Dismounted" implies that you actually have a horse somewhere on the field. There exists, historical records of Cavalry units, fighiting sans horses(mostly on the Corn-fed side). At an event, portraying something, battle, march, camp, where those units actually, historically participated, would be OK with me.  But, there shouldn't be any unmounted Cavalry at a Gettysburg event, for example. The stuff I've seen, maybe because the group(s) didn't know the drill or the history, just looked goofy. Ten or 12 guys who walk into the middle of a fight, "We're Dismounted Cavalry," just so they can burn powder. At the last big Cedar Creek, these 8 or 10 unmounted dudes, walked right through the Belle Grove property, climbed the fence, walked onto the field and, started shooting blanks. Folks wonder why those type of impressions get a bad name. Then there's You-Tube, oh, my, God. What folks post there is embarrasing to all of us. Makes me grumpy.

I actually had an ancestor with the 21st Texas Cav (dismounted),
they WERE mounted until there horses were taken away, but my understanding is that they essentially became an infantry unit and cavalry in name only....(not a bunch of farby guys, etc.)  

--Last edited by TexReb on 2007-09-30 08:13:59 --

My GGG Uncle was a bugler in the 27th NY Cavalry. They weren't issued horses until well after he was wounded at the Crater in 1864. At the Crater the Provisional Brigade consisted of 2 horseless Cavalry (Unmounted, but called/referred to as Dismounted) regiments and 2 heavy Artillery regiments (with no cannon but still called Artillery).

The 27th was issued carbines, shell jackets, mounted trousers, etc. despite being 'unmounted'.

And Grumpy Dave, a couple of Dozen unhorsed cavalry joined in with the Infantry on McPherson's Ridge at Gettysburg....firing until their meager carbine cartridge supply ran out. We actually portrayed that at G135 (although it was a long walk from where 4th Company was fighting to where the 2nd Wisconsin was in that big ditch....no led horses to be seen).

Dismounted implies that you had the ability and means to mount at one point in time.....not that the horse is actually somewhere on the field. For all we know you are portraying Wilder's Lightning Brigade and haven't seen your horse in 2 days (Chickamauga). Portraying a dismounted cavalry assault such as the US Regulars on the south battlefield.....or the Michigan Brigade on the 2nd Day of Trevilian Station....doesn't take having nearby horses to carry off the impression....the led horses are off of the field, well out of LOS/LOF.

Next you're going to tell us that you can carry off a campaigner impression without marching 15 - 25 miles a day right?  

--Last edited by rjsamp on 2007-10-05 16:19:32 --

Quote :

RJSamp wrote : Next you're going to tell us that you can carry off a campaigner impression without marching 15 - 25 miles a day right?

RJ,

You're full of great information. It really isn't necessary to word your posts like you're trying to pick a fight. Around here, honest disagreement will get you a lot more mileage than sarcasm!    

--Last edited by Bill on 2007-10-05 19:33:06 --

Jeepers - when's the last time anyone marched 15 miles...?

Quote :

Michael Schaffner wrote : Jeepers - when's the last time anyone marched 15 miles...?

Next time the masochist you refer to decides to go for a 15 mile "stroll" on the W&OD trail, I may try for 7.5 miles.

Quote :

Bullet Sponge wrote :   Next time the masochist you refer to decides to go for a 15 mile "stroll" on the W&OD trail, I may try for 7.5 miles.

And that would be next Saturday...  It'll be fun.  Supposed to be a lot cooler, which may not be great practice for next summer, but will still be nice.  I'm planning to break in a new pair of brogans on the first 5.

By the way, I just found out that the old labor song, "Step by step" goes back to 1861.  Made my day.

Quote :

RJSamp wrote :Next you're going to tell us that you can carry off a campaigner impression without marching 15 - 25 miles a day right?

What makes statements like that sound silly, is that it implies that every time an infantry soldier on campaign marched less than 15 miles in a day during the real war, he wasn't "carrying off a campaigner impression." If our definitions of impressions get to the point that even the real soldiers aren't good enough, something's wrong.

Odd coincidence on this topic: at the 1888 Gettysburg reunion, half of the men portraying veterans had actually walked 15+ miles per day for over 100 miles, at events within the last few years.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net  

--Last edited by hanktrent on 2007-10-08 18:49:00 --

Hank,

Really, now, what kind of reenactor fellers would move that far in a day, and then the next day, and then the next day, etc.?  

Quote :

Really, now, what kind of reenactor fellers would move that far in a day, and then the next day, and then the next day, etc.?

If only the other veteran had been able to attend in addition to Joe Bordonaro and me, it would have been an amazing three out of five!

But of course that kind of thing was easy, back in the 1860s when we were all 25 years younger.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Oh, if you consider 25 years younger, I remember the joys of 36 miles in a day.