Folks,

This quote from Mr. Heath came from another thread:

"Our biggest inflow comes from guys unhappy with the FMA world seeking something better. Sometimes they like what they find, and other times they find the CPH world is a bit too much work."

I found this interesting, since I've alway found attending CPH events to be far easier than attending mainstream events. You may well be more uncomfortable, wet, or tired; but from my perspective CPH events are easier. Of course, I've made it a point to have little or no responsibility for anybody but me.

There are a lot of things I enjoy about the CPH events I've attended, but there are also a lot of things on the mainstream side of the Hobby I enjoy and have no interest in giving up.

I'd be interested in hearing what folks find most enjoyable or fulfilling on the CPH side of the fence. I would hope this doesn't become a "Them versus Us" discussion.

Bill, this is a great question.  However, it may be difficult to answer it completely.  I think I'm drawn to the CPH side because I have found folks that are very like minded as me.  We tend to mostly want the same thing out of the hobby.  It may be location, authenticity, first person, etc., but in almost all cases, it's attitude.  The attitude to do it historically correct at all costs.  It is way beyond the gear or clothing, though it helps.  

Why would I prefer to attend a three day, historically correct event say at a Picket's Mill or Payne's Farm for example as opposed to a Newark, Ohio event where I follow an agenda that bores me to death?  I just don't have a great answer.  But I know I would rather get rained on at PM or PF than a streamer type event.  Does that make me a nut or a hardcore?  Probably.  But I can't knock the non CPHer who gets what he wants out of the events he attends.  

That's why this is the Common Ground.  My answer sucks...I know.

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Bill wrote : Folks, This quote from Mr. Heath came from another thread: "Our biggest inflow comes from guys unhappy with the FMA world seeking something better. Sometimes they like what they find, and other times they find the CPH world is a bit too much work." I found this interesting, since I've alway found attending CPH events to be far easier than attending mainstream events. You may well be more uncomfortable, wet, or tired; but from my perspective CPH events are easier. Of course, I've made it a point to have little or no responsibility for anybody but me. There are a lot of things I enjoy about the CPH events I've attended, but there are also a lot of things on the mainstream side of the Hobby I enjoy and have no interest in giving up. I'd be interested in hearing what folks find most enjoyable or fulfilling on the CPH side of the fence. I would hope this doesn't become a "Them versus Us" discussion.

Bill

I think I find like you the c/p events to be easier than the mainstream events.  I have found that I enjoy those events because even during downtime I am busy doing something, whether it is as Sgt of the guard, or drilling parts of the company or even just sitting back with some coffee and tobacco.  Some of the best moments we talk about around the fire have been the c/p events where we were cold, wet, tired, hungry.. and how we would do them again in a heartbeat.

I think we use the mainstream events to catch up with others, practice somethings to use at the next c/p event (outpost, grand guard, etc.. ).

But I find that my preparation for both events is pretty simple, altough I find that the c/p events I try to do a little more reading and thinking ahead of what will happen.

Like Ken, not sure if I answered the question, but it seemed like it made sense while it was in my head.

I too find it easier since I have less gear. Just got through loading up for a mainstream event where I am setting up on sutler row and geez is the truck loaded down. Bear in mind I took a load up to relatives who live near the event last week so this is load two. Of course most of this is for the sutler area but still I would much rather have to load only my knapsack.

The other thing I enjoy about the more history heavy events is the immersion or semi immersion aspect.

It's the pie and, those mile and a half marches. I find the events always challange me in some way, be it physically or mentally. They're almost always held on original ground. And, although always small in size, I think these events more accurately represent what a soldier of the CW did on a day to day basis. Event organizers are always trying to give you some special experience. And, for the most part, they don't happen over and over and over again.

This weekend, I gained a huge amount of insight into what I like about p/h events, or more to the point, why I find others heartbreaking.

We've heard the expression, "It's not about us, it's about them." That's my goal. For a weekend, I want to leave my concerns behind and focus as much as possible on the long-gone concerns of people of the 1860s. I think it's a good thing; it reduces one's own self-centered focus and gives perspective on one's life.

So at events where it's still all about our favorite movies, our favorite foods, pictures of ourselves, our comfort, our clever jokes, our clothing sources, our friends, our jobs, our hometowns, not only do I find it pointless. But worse, it's sad to see that *if* a real person from the 1860s were, by some miracle, secretly transported to the event, he would be of little or no interest to the very people who claim to care about the past.

Oh, you say, if a real person from the 1860s were there, we'd care about that; we just don't care about half-assed imitations. And I do see the logic in that. But is it really true? What if someone from the past did stroll up, unannounced, to your campfire one night? Would he feel welcome? Would he think he was home again, among his generation? Would it be about his concerns, his culture, his familiar life, or would he find everyone's priorities to be relentless based on their world and their lives and their hobby, not his?

Some events reassure me that yes, we might try to make him fit in if he did come. Others remind me that he wouldn't fit in at a reenactment anymore than anyplace else in the modern world; it's still all about us.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

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I found this interesting, since I've alway found attending CPH events to be far easier than attending mainstream events. You may well be more uncomfortable, wet, or tired; but from my perspective CPH events are easier. Of course, I've made it a point to have little or no responsibility for anybody but me.

Bill,

Most of the CPH events I attend have required reading, specs on which type of rounds to make, what kind of rations to make and bring (unless a flat haversack event), and a pretty good list of things to do to get prepared for the event ranging from the previously mentioned background reading, to purchasing a few items, to practicing certain skills to be employed at the event. This pre-event preparation translates into work, albeit a labor of love, for the participants. Not everyone is interested in this sort of educational experience.

Where is Mr Peabody when you need him?

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Charles Heath wrote : [quote] Most of the CPH events I attend have required reading, specs on which type of rounds to make, what kind of rations to make and bring (unless a flat haversack event), and a pretty good list of things to do to get prepared for the event ranging from the previously mentioned background reading, to purchasing a few items, to practicing certain skills to be employed at the event.

Charles,

I guess I have attended the wrong events. Nobody has ever questioned my blank rounds at any event, ever. Food is pretty easy, salt meat, crackers, coffee & sugar, and whatever would have been available to steal at the particular time of the year.

I know how to cook bacon in the dark and the various other field crafts necessary to survive for the weekend. I'm actually pretty good at starting fires in the rain. Uniforms and weapons have never been an issue at any event I've attended. As I have always said, "If you own authentic clothing and equipment, and show up with the right attitude, you can attend almost any event".

As a matter of course, I read up on the history involved with the events I attend, no matter where the event falls on the authenticity scale. Usually the CPH Events actually make that reading easier.

I'd be the first to say that a 100% immersion scenario would require a lot of study and preparation. I have never attended such an event.

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hanktrent wrote :  What if someone from the past did stroll up, unannounced, to your campfire one night? Would he feel welcome? Would he think he was home again, among his generation? Would it be about his concerns, his culture, his familiar life, or would he find everyone's priorities to be relentless based on their world and their lives and their hobby, not his?

Hank,

Very interesting comment. It's something I've often thought about. What would a Civil War soldier think if he came back to a reenactment? I wish I had a good answer. Ive read the old boys held reenactments that often included fried chicken and beer. For all I know, they might be a lot happier in the Mainstream camp. They might also think that the most authentic of our events are nothing more or less than a travisity. They might also be highly honored that people will go to the trouble to portray their lives accurately. I know I've got mixed emotions about people doing Viet Nam War impressions. I doubt the Civil War vets would be much different. I guess the best you can do is what works best for you. How's that for a non-answer?  

You were in the middle of the worst possible place this past weekend. The Headquarters at a big event really has very little to do with protraying history. It does have a lot to do with water, parking, ice, medical emergencies, and battle scenarios.

My hat is off to you for maintaining your impression in the mist of all the chaos. That had to be unbelievabley difficult. By the same token, some people just don't have the same dedication to maintaining an historical persona. As we talked about, that's no excuse for raining on your parade.  

 

For me, the C/P events are a means to get away from the norm and live a weekend around guys who's mindset is geared towards mine. This is the only time I can get out and talk about stuff (uniforms, equipment, etc.) that I normally can't talk about when I'm with my battery unless I see some of my C/P pards hanging out there as well. It is also a good time for me to keep brushed up on my infantry drills as well. A lot of work takes place at these and thats a good thing. I get bored just sitting around camp waiting for something to happen at these other events and this is a way for me to get away from all of that every now and then and actually keep busy.

I enjoy the atmosphere also at these events. The public that attend the C/P living histories are more knowledgeable it seems also and you don't have to keep answering the same questions; like "are you Rebels or Yankees?" while you are clearly in your Federal kit. These events draw a different crowd mentality that I appreciate.

Plus you can't pass up the opportunity to watch the female joggers that go by on some of the battlefields either.  

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Bill wrote :   Ive read the old boys held reenactments that often included fried chicken and beer. For all I know, they might be a lot happier in the Mainstream camp.

I think that depends on the premise one begins with. From your post, I'm thinking you're picturing the veterans returning, somehow magically still alive after 140 years, to walk among us, knowing we're reenacting them.

What I'm picturing is a soldier at the time, in the historic situation, unaware that he's in the future and unable to see the blatant yet unfixable anachronisms like airplanes, cars, etc.

Of course a hungry man, for example, would be happier anyplace there's fried chicken, regardless how weird the people are, as long as they give him some! But let's assume his basic survival needs are met and now it's about trying to get along with these people he's just met.

So a soldier in 186X sits down with a group of other soldiers enjoying some chicken and beer, and tries to fit in. Someone cracks a joke. Everyone laughs. The soldier has no idea what they're talking about, but he tries to pretend it's funny to fit in.

He offers a joke, the punchline of which hinges on knowing some period trivia that most reenactors aren't familiar with. All his old friends thought it was hilarious, but here, no one laughs. That's embarrassing. After a few similarly disconcerting tries, he gives up and listens in silence to their jokes, understanding some of them, and half-heartedly pretending to get the rest.

They start asking him where he got his clothes, and he answers as best he can, not sure what they're implying, since he's not wearing anything unusual. They go on for a while, talking in detail about stores and manufacturers that he's never heard of, and he listens in bored silence again, unable to contribute to the conversation.

After a while, they ask where he's from and where he works. He tells them. They react as if he's lying and demand to know what he really does and where he's really from. Offended, he insists he's telling the truth, and after some increasingly annoyed demands for the real answer, they finally drop the subject.

Meanwhile, they've offered to share their food, and he shares what he has. Some of their food is unfamiliar, but when he asks them about it, some laugh at him, some treat him as if he's stupid, others say, "Come on, he's doing first person, leave him alone," while others apoligize for having the food but still won't tell him what it is. It seems a strange reaction to what he thought was a simple friendly conversation-starter, but he decides not to try that again.

And so it goes. As he finally sits quietly listening to them laugh and socialize, unable to figure out how to fit in, he can't wait to get back to his old friends.

Quote :

You were in the middle of the worst possible place this past weekend. The Headquarters at a big event really has very little to do with protraying history.

Actually, I had an opportunity to see a lot of the event, due to running errands for the medical department. If there were better pockets, I didn't run across them, and certainly didn't feel like I wished I'd chosen a different impression. You-all were as good a group to hang around as any I could see in my brief, random exploration of the site.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net  

--Last edited by hanktrent on 2007-09-11 10:32:37 --

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hanktrent wrote : Others remind me that he wouldn't fit in at a reenactment anymore than anyplace else in the modern world; it's still all about us. Hank Trent hanktrent@voyager.net

Hank,

One line and you have summed up what is missing in so many corners of this hobby.

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hanktrent wrote :   So a soldier in 186X sits down with a group of other soldiers enjoying some chicken and beer, and tries to fit in. Someone cracks a joke. Everyone laughs. The soldier has no idea what they're talking about, but he tries to pretend it's funny to fit in. He offers a joke, the punchline of which hinges on knowing some period trivia that most reenactors aren't familiar with. All his old friends thought it was hilarious, but here, no one laughs.

I think you have to look at that scenario from both sides.  Both that soldier and the reenactors have their minds firmly planted in their own world and experiences.  Yeah, the reenactors may be gunning as best they can for that CW experience (as best as they can understand it), but they're still grounded in today's world and all the baggage that carries into their escape into yesteryear.  Not everyone can fully dump those mental files so easily and reprogram for 186x, though it's a good thing to keep trying.

We'd be just as perplexed getting sent back to his time and comrades as he is jumping forward to our time, at least until we'd gotten acclimated.  Without having lived in the time, some things are just beyond knowing about, no matter how hard we study.

I made the decision a couple of years ago that I would strive to attend only the very best events I could realistically attend.  This became very important to me when I changed jobs.  I now work almost every weekend, so my reenacting opportunities are very limited.

There are plenty of events within 3 to 5 hours of me, but I have found only one, and that one held only sporadically, that is worth my time.

I have a lot of years and a LOT of dollars tied up in this hobby.  I find that, if an event does not challenge me at least a little, it isn't worth taking valuable vacation time to attend.

--Andrew Batten
Melbourne, Florida

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flattop32355 wrote : Yeah, the reenactors may be gunning as best they can for that CW experience (as best as they can understand it), but they're still grounded in today's world and all the baggage that carries into their escape into yesteryear.

While avoiding the issue of "we can never be perfect, so whatever we do is good enough," all I can say is, I've been to many events or carpe eventums where that soldier could walk up and not have any of the specific problems I described.

Try an event or carpe eventum like that, then see what you think. Are you free Oct. 5-7? Got a blue uniform? Wanna be with the civilians? (Yes, in a blue uniform, long story.)

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net