I participated in a pure CPH event this weekend. On Saturday, we had two good sized companies of Confederate infantry. By Sunday morning, there were only enough troops left for one big company. The event isn't important, since I've seen the same thing happen at a number of CPH events I've attended.

Like most CPH events, this event was scheduled to end early. In this case, 1:00 PM, so people should have had plenty of time to get home. It was obvious that 1:00 PM wasn't early enough for a lot of folks.

I just cannot figure this out. People invest lots of time and money on their kits, not to mention the time and money spent to actually get to an event. Why is it, so many guys only seem to want to do two nights and one day? Especially when the nights in October, with only one blanket, pretty much suck!

I was joking with a guy that you don't have this problem at mainstream events. As long as you keep the cars out of camp, you've got the participants until the game's over! In actual fact; most mainstreamers, expect their events to last until Sunday afternoon. Why don't more campaigners?  

Bill, I too was at an event this weekend when something like this was brought up. This event is typically mainstream and has been the national host twice in the 2000's. Being relatively small this time around, and as Federal Battalion Sergeant Major, I was keeping an eye out for the change in federal numbers.  The first true disappointment was that about have of registered Yankees made the event.  Still, having a decent number, we made the event a very good success.  But, we did lose a handful of men, but gained about the same number on Sunday morning. Still enough to maintain the numbers for the Yankee army.  The Confederate side was a total different issue and can PM you about that later.

Anyhow, you mention the CPH camparison and that they end early on Sundays. As you know, I attend primarily CPH events aka "Thirty-Six Hour" events.  They begin at 10pm Friday night and end 10am Sunday. Sometimes they end earlier like 9am because of the travel time involved. Travel time is always calculated in a CPH event by the good organizers.

I have to say that of all the years of doing CPH events, I've only attended one where folks actually left half-way through it and that was my own RM event   . But that is now water under the bridge.

I'm just really stating facts as I see them above.  Being on the outside looking in at your particular event this weekend, and being a CPH guy, I would naturally think something wasn't working well for these men at the event. It may seem I'm defending CPHers, but maybe these guys weren't true CPHers themselves.  And, I do think mainstream events do keep their numbers most of the weekend, or from what I've always witnessed.

I believe it was the "Destroyer of the Hobby" that once told me "It's all about the event".

Just my thoughts.

I think Ken has hit the nail on the head 'It Is All About The Event'

I can only remember leaving one event early ie: 1st thing Sunday morning. It was a mainstrean event a few years back with CPH camping area. The battles were so bad the day before that we decided (about 8 of us)..leaving early Sunday as the event was not worth it to stay.

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Marc wrote : I think Ken has hit the nail on the head "It Is All About The Event"

Marc,

I'll buy that, but only up to a point and I'm not talking about CPHers bailing out of Mainstream events. That's a separate issue. I'm asking about the basic EBUFU events. With the exception of W'64, there's been a healthy shrinkage at almost every CPH event I've attended.

Frankly, my guess is that it's just too easy to leave. I'm tired, I'm hot, I'm cold, I'm wet, I'm out of here.  

Bill,

I don't want to bring up the great East-West divide, but the "leavearlyitis" seems to be mostly an eastern thang, and primarily in the NoVa, MD, Sou. Pa., area. In fact, one group that couldn't event hang tight beyond Saturday afternoon at THEIR OWN FREAKIN' EVENTS, earned the sobriquet "The Leave Early Rifles." That isn't to say the classic Sunday morning meltdown doesn't happen, but the better event organizers do plan for the travel times (as Ken said), and it is probably worth noting that the physical, and sometimes mental, demands of a 36-hour event can more than exceed that of the beer, battle, and ball genre.

Sunday morning dead time is also a holdover from the olden days, and having a "little sum'n sum'n goen on" Sunday morning before everyone is scheduled to jet, is a good idea. The idea of "hanging out for some living history for whatever public drops by" is a nice gesture, but the reality often dictates a handful of folks remain whilst everyone else is on the road.

You guys had good weather. Wish I could have been there, as I don't miss too many PL events, and I assume you are talking about Bristoe Station.

Before the frosts of November come calling, I have a six-day event to enjoy. We will be cold, wet, hot, sweaty, sore, sleep deprived, blistered, raw, hungry, thirsty, bug bitten, spooked, and generally have a good time of it. We will have fun, but this kind of fun is not for everyone.

It is about the event, and when the magic happens the event is greater than the sum of its parts. While that sounds like a lot of Dr. Phil mumbo jumbo, there is much truth in that statement.

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Charles Heath wrote : Bill, I don't want to bring up the great East-West divide, but the "leavearlyitis" seems to be mostly an eastern thang, and primarily in the NoVa, MD, Sou. Pa., area. In fact, one group that couldn't event hang tight beyond Saturday afternoon at THEIR OWN FREAKIN' EVENTS, earned the sobriquet "The Leave Early Rifles." That isn't to say the classic Sunday morning meltdown doesn't happen, but the better event organizers do plan for the travel times (as Ken said), and it is probably worth noting that the physical, and sometimes mental, demands of a 36-hour event can more than exceed that of the beer, battle, and ball genre.

Charles,

I'm 63 years old and managed to hang on until the end of Bristoe Station event and I wasn't the only old fart still in the ranks at the end of the festivities.

The event organizers and field staff did an excellent job at  Bristoe Station. I really can't think of anything I'd change; but they still lost almost half their Confederate infantry on Sunday. This was a spectator event on an actual battlefield, and that's what really got my goat. It wasn't like the organizers made the event schedule a secret. If you signed up for the event, you should have known there was a spectator battle scheduled for Noon on Sunday.

But, Bristoe Station isn't really the issue. I'm involved with organizing a couple of Mainstream events and actively discourage CPHers from attending. I have learned from bitter experience,  you just can't depend on them to be around on Sunday. It seems people organizing pure CPH events have the same problems.    

Just gotta say, I really like longer events. The time away from home or work or other responsibilities is of course the major factor, but everything else is pretty much the same: the travel to the event, the special gear if any, the study, the planning, etc. So for the same few hundred dollars, I get half again or twice or more of the fun. Can't beat a bargain like that.

This year, I've been to or am going to several extra-long events, W64, Marmaduke's civilians (Thurs-Sun), the six-day event Charles mentioned, and if you count next spring, Piney Woods. I'm hoping it's a trend.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

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hanktrent wrote : Just gotta say, I really like longer events.

Hank,

I'm with you. I understand people have real lives; but if you went to the time and trouble to get to an event, why would want it over by 9:00 AM on Sunday morning?

Bill, I would have to say for most CPHer's it's because a lot of time during the 36 hours is quite tiring, on their legs a bunch, no real down time for telling stories, most travel long distances for the events where as most mainstream events fall within a tri-state or less area, and many times picketts are set throughout the event.  

I really think the apples and oranges rule applies in most cases.

I'm still relatively new to re-enacting but have made it my personal goal that if I sign up for an event I am there for the duration.  The have been a couple where I have by nature of my "employment" that I simply cannot be thre for the whole event and let those in the leadership of our company know that.

I agree that typically when you sign up for an event you know in advance what the schedule and expectations may be.  I know that attending At High Tide was an opportunity that I did not want to miss even though I had to be back for an 8:30 AM appointment on that Monday.  Nevertheless, I felt, especially in light of the distance that I and the rest of the men from our company had to travel that it was important to remain and not cut out early.

I love doing this, wish I had begun at least twenty years ago and hate missing any part of the event!

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Ken Cornett wrote : I really think the apples and oranges rule applies in most cases.

Ken,

My comments didn't really have anything to do with Mainstream events, or the people who attend them. They are simply my observations, after attending more authentic events for the past five years, or so. I'm sure other people's mileage will vary.

I have noticed the propensity to leave events on Sunday morning extends to CPH participation at Mainstream events. It's why I don't want units without cots, coolers, and tents attending the Mainstream events I'm involved with. The Sunday morning surprise is a pain in the butt.  

--Last edited by Bill on 2008-10-14 00:43:11 --

The one thing you all have not hit on is Church!   Many a time I have had to get out of an event early especially CPH events because mass is only available in the mornings.
Most mainstream events I attend have Church service for all kinds of dominations and this alone allows me to stay.    I can not come up with one CPH event that had church service available and it’s not even mentioned during these events.  Could this be one of the reason for the losses on Sunday morning?

OK, streamer with authentic tendencies chiming in here on the Church thing!  I've never attended an event where a Catholic Mass was celebrated on the grounds, so I have to take leave for an hour or two and find a local church, but I don't just bail on the rest of the event on Sunday.  We go and come back.  Find the earliest Mass possible and go.  If I have to miss a morning formation, well, Church does come first, and unfortunately a prayer service doesn't fulfill my Sunday obligation, but again, we return after Mass.  The Rev War folks I've spent the last 30+ years reenacting with know this and it's not a problem.  I imagine this would be more difficult to do in a more C/P/H setting, though.  Perhaps some scheduled "time off" for those wishing to attend church would help to alleviate this? I don't get the idea of leaving early.  I've even stayed late on Sunday evening after my gear was packed up, and just sat and watched the rest of the camp come down, because I didn't want the weekend to end!  Didn't really matter if I had a 5 hour drive (as was typical!) ahead of me.  BTW, I've been informed my opening line may be misconstrued.  I am describing myself, not any other poster, as a "streamer with authentic tendencies".  Just wanted to make that clear.  

--Last edited by fedguy on 2008-10-15 07:16:21 --

If we didn't treat it as a capital crime we might be able to just ask folks <g>

But here are a couple of theories:

1)  As Bill notes, it's easier to leave an EBUFU event.  G. A. Sala opined  that the use of the tent d'abri facilitated straggling in the Federal army, and the same effect applies today.

2)  Demographics.  EBUFU events tend to have more younger guys.  Of course us old farts stayed to the end.  What else do we have to live for?    Plus, we're not looking forward to twenty more years in the hobby.  Young guys have school, jobs (with less vacation time, usually), and higher maintenance women.  

The "Leave-Early Rifles" were a classic example of a unit with a nearly-historical age range.  Making fun of their propensity for evaporating before the end of the event is poor consolation for being thirty years older.

Here's my thought. What was on the Federal/Confederate schedule for Sunday? How far were you from your vehicle? Was the exodus the same on the Federal side?



I have a good idea...

I hear you.  We were less than a mile from parking and we had nothing significant scheduled for the infantry until the noon skirmish.  We could have invented something, but I don't think anyone had any interest in that.  I assumed that attrition was the same for the Union (based on the ratio of NCOs to privates at the Sunday morning commemoration, which I forgot to mention in my AAR...) but I'm not sure.  This weekend I should run into some folks who can tell me.

Reference church services:  Chaplains are not playing a role of pretend or “play like.”  They have the same function in this modern age as the 1860’s version.  We are blessed by having some good ones and they take their job seriously, even in between events.  An example of such is back in April of 2004, I had surgery to correct a life-threatening situation.  Complicating matters is this was the third such surgery.  Because of the length of the surgery and the nature of it I had been taken as deep as anesthesia can take you.  The surgery was over and I was placed in a room.  So, there I was trying to work my way out of a narcotic fog, hooked up to all kinds of machines, and with tubes hanging out of most every body orifice.  I was trying to make my eyes focus but they were not cooperating.  Nothing was quite right and I was certainly not at my best.  But lying there on that bed, still doped up and totally befuddled, I felt there was a presence in that room and that it was speaking to me.  My head turned and my eyes finally focused on a familiar face and out of that anesthesia induced miasma came a voice.  It was not my wife.  It was neither my minister nor my son or daughter.  It was our Civil War reenactment unit chaplain sitting there right beside that hospital bed.  This man has the unique ability to say the right thing at the right time.  He leaned over that bed and said,  “See there.  That’s what happens when you are not a good boy.”

'Lotta guys on the CPH side have a very short attention span. So, if they weren't busy on Sunday morning maybe...Then, maybe there was something that filled their need on Saturday, they didn't have the desire to do again on Sunday. Just, tossin' out ideas, I have no clue, I wasn't there.

Unfortunately it is the reality EBUFU events. Some people (say 500 out of 20,000) think its a good thing. And you might be able to put 200 in the same place for a short weekend. I'd like to think if you had a 3-5 night event near/on a battle field you could have a national event and really do it right.....a Company of Cavalry....a couple of horse drawn artillery....heck, let's go whole hog and have mounted field grade officers! But the reality is 75 rifle 3 'company' regiments....meet and greet on Friday night....start Saturday morning and finish Sunday morning.

It was kind of neat to march out in the dark at Outpost 2007 and sleep on arms in south Rippa Villa....made the event a little longer.

If I were an organizer, I'd think this out a little bit more.....guys travelling 10-16 hours each way for a 30-40 hour event? Personally, pass. And there are a few hundred if not thousands who feel the same way.

Grumpy,

This thread really doesn't have anything to do with a specific event. Bristoe Station just reminded me that many CPHer's seem to expect events to be over early Sunday morning and they tend to bail out on Sunday morning, whether the event's over, or not. This is just my observation, after five years of attending some of the more authentic events and dealing with CPHer's at a number of Mainstream events.

As I said, other people's mileage may vary.