Given my position as the Forum's official semi-Farb, I hesitated to post this; but what about bringing emergency canvas to CPH events? Over the years, I attended a number of CPH events that have been cut short because of weather conditions.

What would be the problem in arranging for sufficient tents and/or flys, to be used, only if the weather turns really bad? It seems to me that this farbism would sure beat ending a good event early. I'm not suggesting that everybody gets their own Common Tent. Four of five guys to each common tent, or just enough flys to provide shelter to the attendees who need it.

I would guess there's enough people like myself, who own tents, who could easily throw them in their cars, in case very bad storms are forecasted during the weekend. I understand that people don't like using tents during most CPH events. I have also observed that a lot of guys don't like getting soaked when the weather may also be cold. These folks have a tendency to vote with their feet.

I'll hide under my desk now!  

Bill,

This boils down to leadership, and the "Softcore Campaigners" need to lose the notion that the first general order is "If rain, then run." This is so ingrained in the East that the trend may be difficult to reverse.

Bill, if you are attending a mobile CPH event, I cannot see how tents would be moved?  RM might be a good example, plus if the event is researched to the gills and commone tents weren't no where in the area, it would blow the accuracy out the window.  So many things to consider... .  

--Last edited by Ken Cornett on 2008-11-21 15:18:49 --

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Ken Cornett wrote : Bill, if you are attending a mobile CPH event, I cannot see how tents would be moved?

Ken,

Event organizers usually know where people are going to camp, even if the participants don't. I don't know why tents couldn't be prepositioned, just like firewood and water already often is.

I'm certainly not suggesting that tentage becomes a standard feature at the more authentic events. I'm looking at it as an insurance policy to avoid events shutting down early; especially in the early Spring and late Fall.  

Other than situations like Rich Mountain, where participants were specifically separated from what they'd brought, I thought that most reenactors at campaign events weren't actually tentless, meaning wool blanket and ground cloth with nothing to put over their blanket in the rain. They carried a shelter half or the historically-appropriate equivalent, like an extra piece of canvas or an extra gum blanket or an oilcloth or something, and a bit of rope. Am I wrong? Because that's what I've always done.

So when it rains, if you combine your shelter half or the equivalent with another man's, or better yet a couple other men, you can erect a nice shelter if there's trees or deadwood for tent poles. If I suspect I'll be on my own, I carry enough to make a dog-tent-sized tent for myself.

If someone isn't comfortable in that situation, I'm guessing they wouldn't be much happier in a common tent with four other men or squeezed under the edge of a fly. But I dunno. Or is it that most campaigners literally carry nothing to put overhead in the rain?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

  Hallo!

 A "common tent" might hold three lads if the lad in the middle is short enough not to be bothered by the two poles.
 And if the lads are stout enough, the two on the ends will touch the canvas and invite annoying drips through the fabric.

  IMHO, "tents" can be a great thing if one gets into one while dry and does not have to go out in the rain. (Or has dry clothes to change into in the tent...)

 ;)  

 Seriously, I believe the Reenacting Culture (RC) is that lads do not like to be.... wet and cold, or even just wet.

 Curt
 Our suffering was in tents

Bill,

After talking with you and Billy yesterday, and learning some CS participants were breaking and running around 1:00 a.m. (very early Saturday morning), I'm not sure much of anything short of a massive application of superglue could have kept the boys on the farm.  A good windbreak in the form of the CSXT woodlot, original battlefield ground, plenty of high quality seasoned firewood, and excellent chow wasn't enough. From looking at the photographs Bev took while we were servicing the water huts Saturday morning, there certainly was no shortage of canvas on that portion of the farm lane, so there is another puzzle. That would have been the CS right flank, as we didn't venture down to the CS far left flank to inspect the portajohns that early in the event.

Dusty came up with an interesting evaporation theory in our little organizers post mortem, and that was the average CS participant didn't feel there was very much left to do after about noon on Saturday. In light of the clamor for "more downtime" in the past year or so, I find that to be most interesting.

IMHO, the boys were probably far colder yesterday standing there at the Bliss Farm listening to some good words, but sunny and cold has a whole 'nuther mental picture (to borrow Curt's favorite phrase) than dark, wet, and cool.  Curious, this be.

Guys,

I don't pretend to any expertise in organizing CPH events. But, over the years, I have attended too many events that have ended early, or lost the majority of the participants, because of weather problems.

I understand that organizers want to make their events as authentic as possible; but there are limitations that were never an issue during the real war. First, nobody ever told a real Civil War soldier he couldn't cut down a tree or tear down a fence to build shelter. Second, real soldiers have no alternative to misery. You deal with what you have to deal with because you have no choice. Reenactors always have a choice. It's the car in the parking lot, or not showing up at all.

From my perspective, it's pretty simple. Either provide shelter, or demand that every participant has his own shelter and the means to set it up. Again, from my perspective, suggesting that people use their weapons, which cost from $500 to $1,000 dollars, as tent poles; is not a viable alternative to a simple stick.    

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Bill wrote : But, over the years, I have attended too many events that have ended early, or lost the majority of the participants, because of weather problems.

I dunno. Is it really the weather? Or is the weather an excuse?

I'm always amazed to be around reenactors who seem to dislike actually reenacting (replicating the past) and want to delay starting and quit as soon as they can. Don't even get me started about the campaign event that was supposed to run Friday evening through Sunday morning, but when I got there, one officer told me the start was delayed until Saturday morning, and another officer told me it was over Saturday evening. So both nights, if I'd followed an officer's orders like a good little private instead of trying to find a better group to camp with, I'd have been sitting around the campfire not reenacting like a hardkewl. If the weather had been bad, why even bother staying? I could sit at a restaurant or a motel and schmooze with other reenactors and be more comfortable. Honestly, if that was my hobby, I'd leave when it rained too.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Bill,

Other than being able to locate the camp, water, wood, and portajohns within a 2 square inch margin of error, and making sure folks knew enough to not dig soil or whack living vegetation, I didn't pay all that much attention to the CS pre-event participant communication.  The US forces were furnished with 8 detailed pre-event "communications" in the usual format, and 1 post-event wrap-up email.  An evaluation similar to that from Payne's Farm was also provided post event, and that is a nice touch, IMHO. Additional information was provided at the company level through the individual commanders.

What detailed instructions were provided to the CS participants to shape their expectations about shelter, sleeping, and the weather?

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First, nobody ever told a real Civil War soldier he couldn't cut down a tree or tear down a fence to build shelter.

Wait a darn minute, you mean those safeguards written out by so many commanders weren't followed to the letter? I'm shocked. Positively shocked, I say.    As an aside, I had to look up how to write a safeguard in I.G.P. this summer at an event, since it had been so long since I had to scribble one out.  

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Either provide shelter, or demand that every participant has his own shelter and the means to set it up.

The CS troops at ATB had more than adequate tentage, at least according to the photographic evidence, so it wasn't the question of erecting canvas. It's a shame we can't upload images with this forum software.  For me, a big part of any event is dealing with the elements, but then again I have spent a heck of a lot of my lifetime outdoors.

Hank makes a good point, and that is these fellows came to an event totally unprepared.  

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Charles Heath wrote : Hank makes a good point, and that is these fellows came to an event totally unprepared.

Charles,

The "After the Battle" event prompted my original post, but this was only one of a number of events adversely affected by the weather, or the weather forecast.

Curt Schmidt hit the nail on the head. The average reenactor doesn't want to get wet, cold, or miserable; no matter what he calls himself. So, the question is pretty simple. How do you keep people dry and more or less warm at Spring and Fall events?

Bill,

The cynic in me suggests we have indoor events in climate controlled venues where the temperature doesn't vary more than four degrees from 72 degrees F.  Maybe we could add sutlers and funnel cake vendors, too. The realist in me is starting to think the same thing.

Curt did nail it. The average reenactor has never had to hunt, fish, hike, or work in the rain, sleet, hail, wind, snow, heat, or humidity, so it's four drops of ran and run. The funny part is we used to teach and practice fieldcraft that would keep us less than miserable even in the worst of weather conditions. Whatever happened to that body of knowledge? Maybe it has evaporated. The 3M folks would call this a lack of "methods."

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How do you keep people dry and more or less warm at Spring and Fall events?

Short of building their shelters for them, and tucking them in at night, I'm really not sure how to keep people warm if they don't want to do it themselves. When the will to stay is not there, then they are heading to the cars.

Whatever happened to "Embrace the Suck?"    

Let me know if you have a real answer short of buying FEMA trailers for each set of comrades.

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Charles Heath wrote : Short of building their shelters for them, and tucking them in at night, I'm really not sure how to keep people warm if they don't want to do it themselves. When the will to stay is not there, then they are heading to the cars.

I think the answer may be from another perspective. If being miserable is worth it, people will stay. What's the upside?

Case in point: At Marmaduke's Raid, Linda and I were sneaking our way up the valley back to the rendezvous point Sunday morning, and were idly tracking a set of footprints going the same direction. When the footprints stepped into a knee-deep creek and scaled a waist-high bank, we said the heck with it, and changed back to our main goal, which was avoiding any stray bushwhackers while picking our way as easily as possible through the woods. There was no upside for us or the people we were portraying to get wet and climb through the mud, so we didn't.

A minute or two later, some bushwhackers came toward us the way the footprints had gone, and they each jumped off the bank and into the water. They were motivated to sneak up to the fort, and that was the best way to get through, and it was consistent with their portrayal of tough guerillas. They had all kinds of motivation.

So what's the point of camping in the rain or cold with substandard equipment? Why bother? What makes it worth it? There are events I wouldn't attend even if they offered zero physical discomfort.

If an event offers something that makes it worth it for the participants, I think they'll stay. The question is, what's worth it to enough of the target participants?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

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Charles Heath wrote : Bill, Let me know if you have a real answer short of buying FEMA trailers for each set of comrades.

Charles,

I sort've thought I did with my suggestion to pre-position shelter at events.  

Here's another. During early Spring and late Fall events; about the minimum you can get by with is a gum blanket under you, a wool blanket around you, and a water resistant cloth to put over you or make a tent. I'm old and tired; but no matter what else I leave home, I carry those three items, along with about 10' of hemp string. I have observed that many reenactors do not carry even this minimum amount of equipment. If the weather is moderate, these guys do fine, but if things go bad, they're dead in the water. Pun intended.    

Perhaps event organizers could demand that participants carry the minimum items to maintain health and safety. Also insure that campsites have the necessary raw material for building shelters. (Either trees to tie shelters to, or sticks to use for building shelters)

This problem isn't limited to the authentic wing of the Hobby. It never fails to amaze me how the attendance at Neshaminy varies, depending on Thursday's weather forecast. The difference is, that once you have a tent camper on site, he's not likely to leave until the end of the event.

 

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Perhaps event organizers could demand that participants carry the minimum items to maintain health and safety.

Hold that thought, and I'll get back to you a little later this evening. We've had a 2010 event opportunity fall into our laps this morning, and it also requires a confederate element to mesh properly with history. The problem we see is where to find confederates who won't run at the incredible hardship wrought by a heavy dew, or the massive overspray from a field mouse urinating on a dirt road.

Meanwhile see if we can get a deal on those FEMA trailers on Craig's List....

The real soldiers had to get wet at times. A little drizzle is nothing to run from. Being in California, I would be drug kicking and screaming to leave an event early. I would also be unlikly to go to events from that organizer again.

Hank's point is well-taken--if being miserable is worth it, folks will stay.  

And what's more, folks with the right attitude will do a whole lot for the sake of camraderie.

For Banks Grand Retreat, part of my charge was to be prepared to take in those who 'fell out' or were injured (so one man would not take out a whole carpool)  and keep them in a period atmosphere.  

Not knowing what 'casulty' numbers to expect, I packed a 12'x 12' wedge tent and a 17' x 17' fly.  And we had some fellers who were right sick.  

They absolutely refused to sleep in the big tent--their comrades were out in the cold and wet, they were not doing any less, even if they could not keep up due to injury or illness.    

The big fly got marginal use----as much a windbreak as anything else.  Certainly not enough use to justify my out of pocket expense to purchase it for the event.  

That sense of camraderie--that was all-important, and attempting to share at least part of the experience.  So, I saw injured men working to the best of their ability, and ill men doing their dangest not to be too much trouble.  

The only real use all that 'emergency' canvas hauled across three states saw was when a women and toddler got to hike in for the last couple of days of the event.  

Ahhhh yes, FEMA trailers.  I must admit I was a tad happier to see ours pulled away than I was to see it pulled in and hooked up.  They are one of life's delights.  Quite a few suits here in the local realm about health hazards purportedly associated with formaldehyde laced FEMA trailers.   FEMA trailers are not a mainstream undertaking.  Well, if you bring your own pre-filled propane tank maybe so.  Most likely they should be reserved for the more adventuresome elements of the hobby.

Hank's last thread kind of says it all for me.  Comfort is something I honestly never think about.  I will look at the guidelines for an event.  If it tells me we need shelter halves because such and such regiment had them on this leg of a campaign, then I have it with me. Mess No.1 will go with what is documented by the records or regimentals. We hate to carry knapsacks, but will if the boys we portray did so.

We were at a SG outpost about four years ago in the fall and it got down in the teens at night.  I froze on post and slept on fire in reserve.  The post was miserable, but after the event...we all agreed it was the best time we had had in a long time.  Miserable but fun...and accurate.  Can't remember the regiment we did then though.

Ken,

The absolute coldest was -17 F, but we, as a group, survived with no injuries. Yes, that is cold. In terms of heat, Landrum's Vicksburg NPS LH in 2007, Wilderness 1996, and Athens 2002 tend to tie with each other. The cold at the 2006 edition of W64 only got into the teens as a high temp for the day, and the brisk trade at the sutlery kept me warm. One of the most interesting and brutal picket posts was in 2004, and the snow was coming in horizontally at a fast, wet, clip to top off the thigh deep stuff already on the ground.

I'd name unit names, but Bill already knows who they are. You'd think these guys had some fieldcraft amongst them, but the truth is they were among the least prepared. The second group to break and run at the threat of rain was entirely expected, and to be honest we figured they'd all be no-shows due to the weather forecast. I'll be kind and not mention them either.

After they went out to eat and stock up on brews, a small posse of the Fair Weather Rangers partied in the parking lot until about 11:00 p.m., an then went on to snooze in the barns until morning. That's a chapter that hasn't been made public, but it is proof that the weather can be too rotten to reenact, but never too bad to tailgate!