Over on Szabo's Forum, a fellow was asking about using a stock weapon at the more authentic events. I know many events request defarbed weapons, but I couldn't think of any events that outright refused to allow stock weapons.

Do any of you know of events where a defarbed weapons was a requirement for participation?  

--Last edited by Bill on 2009-04-09 23:50:18 --

Quote :

Bill wrote : Over on Szabo's Forum, a fellow was asking about using a stock weapon at the more authentic events. I know many events request defarbed weapons, but I couldn't think of any events that outright refused to allow stock stock weapons. Do any of you know of events where a defarbed weapons was a requirement for participation?

While not a requirement, it was highly recommended on the Confederate side of ATB to have a de-farbed weapon.  

"Firearms

We would like to see all firearms (three band types only) and bayonets “de-farbed,” i.e. modern makers marks removed and replaced with original type stamping. A bayonet appropriate for the piece should accompany all weapons.

Imported “Tower” Enfield rifled musket
Springfield M1861
Springfield/Harpers Ferry M1842
Springfield/Harpers Ferry M1855 (limited numbers) "

  Hallo!

 Off the top of my head, no, not that I can recall at this instant.

 Although, it can get trickier as sometimes individuals or units can be invited (or expect to attend) to so-called  "EBUFU" type events where a "de-farbed' weapon is the unspoken expectation (if not "given") as part of one's overall level of impression as part of clothing and gear.
 So, it is assumed not written.

 Curt

Guys,

I asked this question because it sort of highlights the disconnect between perception and reality that exists in the Hobby. The young man who asked the original question was under the impression he wouldn't be accepted at a more authentic event, until he got his weapon defarbed.

The people who attend more authentic events know that's not true and there's a sliding scale of preferred, acceptable, and not acceptable at most events.

People make noises about "Getting beyond the gear", but that's not what comes across to the unwashed out there.  

Bill,

All he has to do is ask. This is the standard blurb we've been using since 2001, albeit tweaked for each event:

http://www.stonewallbrigade.com/atb07_usa.htm

The excuse phrase in use lately is "fear of running the gauntlet."

I have yet to see anyone turned away from an authentic event due to a weapon not being defarbed. I believe there are some localities that defarbing is even technically illegal in. To be honest, I have yet to see anyone turned away from an authentic event for any reason as long as the most important part of their kit is correct. What part is that you may ask........ it's the smallest thing that can easily be overlooked by some.......it's called attitude. Everything else is easily fixed but a bad attitude is something that is simply not tolerated.  ;)

  Hallo!

 Agreed.

 But sometimes  "inconvenient truths" are hard to tell from out-and-out lies, falsehoods, and deceits.
 Especially when there is a self-serving agenda to be maintained such as the Founding Father/Benign/Notso Benign Dictator fearing his unit loses to the Darkside, or segments of the CW Community fearing migration to the Darkside of C/P/H.

 IMHO...

 If more lads could overcome theie fear of the Boogerman, this Glass Ceiling would be much more porous if not cease to exist much at all.

 Others' mileage, and politics, will vary...

 Curt
 Heretic

Curt, true enough. Some of that same envy exists betwixt the Keyboard Kampaigner, Campaigner-Lite, and WannabeCPH groups and those who have mastered the skillset, or at least tried to become journeymen in fieldcraft. I've often thought this was one of the best CW reenacting articles ever written:

http://sipleymess.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=1

Dave is my hero.

Funny,

Ask and you shall receive. The quote below is from a group that's putting together Carpe-Eventum during a living history at Gettysburg this summer. If you want to play with this group you have to have a defarbed shooting iron.  

---------------------------------------------------------------

"Rifle-Musket:

Since there is not a dependable reproduction source for the Austrian "Lorenz" M1854, .54 caliber rifle-musket & replacement parts at this time except for original weapons, we have opted for some other commonly reproduced rifle-muskets during the war. We prefer the M1861 Springfield rifle-musket that the 6th Wisconsin carried, or the Pattern of 1853 Enfield rifle-musket that the Second Wisconsin carried by January of 1864. All muskets must have three-barrel bands, with exception to original Austrian Lorenz M1854, .54 caliber rifle-muskets. We also require that all modern makers’ marks are removed, and any necessary modifications are made to ensure the accuracy of your rifle-musket."
----------------------------------------------------------------

"But sometimes  "inconvenient truths" are hard to tell from out-and-out lies, falsehoods, and deceits.

Especially when there is a self-serving agenda to be maintained such as the Founding Father/Benign/Notso Benign Dictator fearing his unit loses to the Darkside, or segments of the CW Community fearing migration to the Darkside of C/P/H."

Curt,

As one of those Benign/Notso Benign Dictators, I tend to think the CPH side of the Hobby has a public relations problem; not an issue with the leadership of the Mainstream side of the Hobby.  

Everybody in my Battalion knows I attend some of the more authentic events. The majority opinion is I'm out of my bloody mind.   There's a small group, in the Battalion, who will attend events without tents; but they are very much in the minority.  

--Last edited by Bill on 2009-04-11 00:36:31 --

There's psychological comfort in saying, "I can't attend that event because my musket's not defarbed," rather than saying, "I can't attend that event because I don't actually have the knowledge and ability that the man I'm portraying would have had." Everybody sympathizes with poverty. Fewer people sympathize with laziness.

But then there are also reenactors who simply don't want to attend c/p/h events and wouldn't like them if they did. I've seen that plenty of times, among civilians. I'll get somebody to attend their first c/p/h event. Everything goes well, their kit's fine and they're absolutely indistinguishable from long-time c/p/h reenactors, yet at the end, they're just, "meh. I guess. Whatever." And it's the last one they attend.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

  Hallo!

 "As one of those Benign/Notso Benign Dictators, I tend to think the CPH side of the Hobby has a public relations problem; not an issue with the leadership of the Mainstream side of the Hobby."

 As a once former Benign (in my own mind at least) Dictator myself, I do not disagree.

 IMHO, I would say for every Benign/Notso Benign Dictators who manipulates his unit to try to discourage, dissuade, or even prohibit C/P/H migration- there is one C/P/Her who works at a glass factory making and installing those Ceilings for their own vested and self-interest motives.
 And maybe more than one.

 I think for some lads, it can be easier to point at the shadowy figures behind the glass as boogermen, than to actually
open the glass door and step through to the other side.
 And for some of the real boogermen on the other side of the glass to use fun house mirrors to distort real and imagined things to keep lads from coming in.

 Others' mileage, and politics, will vary...

 Curt
 

“Fewer people sympathize with laziness.”  
This is not an attempt to be critical and certainly not to argue.  However, there are a few who do not participate in c/p/h/ kinds of events because they are physically impaired.

Quote :

hanktrent wrote : But then there are also reenactors who simply don't want to attend c/p/h events and wouldn't like them if they did. I've seen that plenty of times, among civilians. I'll get somebody to attend their first c/p/h event. Everything goes well, their kit's fine and they're absolutely indistinguishable from long-time c/p/h reenactors, yet at the end, they're just, "meh. I guess. Whatever." And it's the last one they attend.

I have to agree with Hank. After guys have been in the unit for a while and have their kit together, we try to get them to an event without tents. Some enjoy it, some don't. It's not an issue for us one way, or the other.

CPH events are very much an acquired taist. I just wish more guys would take a bite.

Quote :

Bill wrote : "CPH events are very much an acquired taist."

Definitely a true statement.

Curtis,

I have to call BS on that. It's simply not true, as a good number of civilian slots (and houses) go vacant for lack of applicants.  To cite a nearby (for you) example, Westville 2008 could have used a wise old Mex War veteran as a counter point to the innocent enthusiasm of the lads jumping into the 1861 21st Georgia.  

You are more than welcome to tag along with Terre this year to DM XI, and stay up at the house with that family pod. They can use a strong father (or grandfather with some of the young ones) figure to help over see the daily chores, lard rendering, meat salting/smoking, and a few other tasks on the menu. Blue folks and/or gray folks may come visit.

Quote :

Curtis Makamson wrote : “Fewer people sympathize with laziness.”   This is not an attempt to be critical and certainly not to argue.  However, there are a few who do not participate in c/p/h/ kinds of events because they are physically impaired.

Oddly enough, there's an upcoming event with two or three slots open for a particular situation that the organizer would like to have happen, but he's having trouble filling the roles. He contacted me and I said I'd do it, and I recommended a couple other fellows, but they're kinda hesitant. Why? Because they don't know if they want to portray someone who's weak and not up to full strength, since they'd rather be marching with the army that weekend.

Depending on one's disability, that role might not be suitable (email me if interested; it's in the south), but as Charles says, there are all kinds of opportunities at c/p/h events, especially p/h ones, for people with disabilities, just depending what their limitations are. Westville was a good example. Immortal 600, the Kentucky trial event where we had a fellow waiting for a kidney transplant, Winter 64, lots of jobs in forts. I'm guessing Marmaduke's Raid up in the fort would have been suitable.

Upcoming this fall there's the Lost Tribes, where civilians will be in a town similar to Westville, only in Missouri. I'll be the miller; if you want, contact me about it.

The nice thing is that there's a wider variety of situations portrayed at c/p/h events than the usual activites at mainstream events, so while not every c/p/h event has an opportunity for someone with a physical impairment, there are plenty that do, or where a little adaptation and selection of a role would make a slot available.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Quote :

"...the Kentucky trial event where we had a fellow waiting for a kidney transplant,...."

He is doing just fine these days, if yesterday in "Da Burg" was any indication. Both he and his lovely bride were STILL talking about how much fun they'd had at the Kentucky Trial event. It's a shame he couldn't make it to the last Winter 1864 event, as we could have used the visit from the USSC inspector. Especially Coldfoot's cookhouse!  

As pointed out the erroneous impressions of the progressive side of the hobby are a public relations issue.

But it is an issue brought on by the "progressive" themselves, partially by rogue "progressives" and partially by the "progressive" leadership themselves.

The "rogues" are your biggest problem.

Newcomers to the hobby or even "mainstreamers" looking to move up have to go somewhere for information.  And in today's society that somewhere is the internet where there is as much (maybe more) mis-information as information.

So they go to a board to try and find out something about being progressive and they are pounced on by the "rogues".  Abused, insulted, told to spend a fortune and that they aren't good enough and no help is offered.

You've all seen it.  Isn't that one of the reasons this board was founded?

So the "rogues" have left a bad taste in the newcomers mouth and nobody from the "progressive" side has stepped up to quash the "rogue" or correct the impression or even to offer help.

The vast majority of "progressives" are nice serious reenactors who want more people to play with.  They are not equipment nazis.  

Yet the "rogues" are the loudest voice out there and they are abusive just to puff themselves up.

But they still leave a lot of potential recruits with a bad feeling and mis-information.

There is no movement among the "progressive" leadership to offset the damage by the rogues.

The other leadership issue is that the leaders don't lead their units towards events where you are going to run into the better "mainstreamers".  Those better "mainstreamers" are your best source for new recruits to the ranks of the "progressives".

If "progressive" units were to go to mainstream events and not go off and set up their own camps but set up "progressive" camps right in the middle of the mainstreamer camps they'd be able to interact with "mainstreamers".  They'd be able to show what the "progressive" side of the hobby is really like.  What it means, how it is a step up on what better "mainstreamers" are doing not a radical change in direction.

As they say in sales: You have to go belly to belly with 10 good prospects to get one sale.

I don't see progressive leadership setting up those 'sales calls'.  And if you want to make sales you have got to make the calls.

How could you not have a publicity problem?

I once talked with a business consultant who pointed out that the first person to answer the telephone is actually the most important person in your company.  They set the initial impression of the company.  How many times have you personally been frustrated by either a person on the phone who doesn't know squat or a VRU that can't help you?

That's what needs to be improved, the initial contact by a new prospect.

Quote :

Curtis Makamson wrote : “Fewer people sympathize with laziness.”   This is not an attempt to be critical and certainly not to argue.  However, there are a few who do not participate in c/p/h/ kinds of events because they are physically impaired.

Knowing Curtis's limitations, I am going to agree with him for the run-of-the-mill  everybody's a refugee 'history-heavy' event.    And I'll even agree with him on some  Yeah-We-Got-A-Cabin events, as sometimes the phrase 'house', and its accessibility is in the eye of the beholder.  


But as is noted, the Westville series is different, with houses, limited land to cover, and the basic logistics available there.  

What's not evident on the public boards is that a smaller group is going to Westville in 2009 to work on the place, as well as talk nice for the tourists.  A Mexican War vet would be a fine thing to have, and your traveling companion also has needed skills.  Part of the point for this particular event is for folks who have reservations/trepidations for immersion events to come wade in the water.  You have the bulk of the clothing you need, and your companion can get by with a pair of period overalls.  

And you'd also get the opportunity to help/learn from some of the better period cooks in the hobby, set in their proper element, a home with a fireplace and crane.......

Terre,

...and that would be a sturdy triple crane at that!

Come to think of it the next effort down the pike that includes a planned civilian element/ You've seen it already, of course.

=====================================================

Civilian Activity Plan

The goal is to provide period appropriate activities producing useable items for follow-on events.

1. Cabin – Fall butchering tasks
• Up to 5 adults & 2-3 children
• Arrive on site Fri PM & stay through Sun. An adult male from the community passes the lines Sat PM with “intelligence” & stays at location 3 or 4 for Sat night and maybe acquires work as a laborer with the Federals.
• Tasks:
Smoking various small hog parts using a wooden barrel (1 adult)
Rendering lard for cooking, soap (1-2 adults)
Cutting/drying apples (child’s play supervised by adult with sharp instrument)
Husking/preparing corn for drying (1 adult)
Meal prep for the “community” (1-2 adults)

2. Field Hut – Indigenous population
• 1-2 adults
• Arrive on site Fri PM and stay through Sun. Occupants can stay there all day or “visit” with the cabin occupants during the day.
• Tasks:
Repair/improve accommodations (chimney/chinking/interior)
Collect winter wood

3. Ravine Hut – Refugees making the best of a bad situation
• 1-2 adults
• Arrive on site Fri PM and stay through Sun.
• Tasks:
Improve hut to sustain permanent residence through the winter unless displaced by troops

4. Wagon – Travelers with permission to “pass through the lines”
• 2-3 Adults (preferably married couple, with brother/sister/father/mother, with or without children)
• Arrive at Fri PM Camp at pond, commence travel on wagon to destination, “lose” team to US confiscation along the route. Proceed on foot to complete the passage of lines. Depending on the number of people, some or all of the party can elect to stay with the wagon as accommodations at location 3 or 4 may be crowded. One participant at least must cross the lines and stay either at location 1 or 2.
• Tasks:
Fri PM/Sat AM – Catch fish for dinner or breakfast. This means cleaning and gutting.
Conduct foot travel as necessary
Smuggle supplies/mail/ intelligence through the lines
Participate in tasks for location 1 or 2

==============================================================

There's probably an event with a fashion show, wedding, and ladies' tea with far more sex appeal.

Is that for the death march? Darn, I hate that it's on the same weekend as Lost Tribes, which I kinda already committed to. And they're less than 50 miles difference in distance, so I can't even say that one's closer than the other.

After you're over the COI, I want to email you about the iron prospecting trip and check on a few things, like what daily distances you want, etc.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net