Curtis has a good point about religion and the hobby.  For some folks it's simply not enough to believe as they believe; they have to believe everyone who believes differently is going to hell, or at least has an inferior faith that they should be saved from.

Authenticity is a more difficult issue that most people would like to admit, and tends to be measured by criteria that the measurer has already met.  Sometimes it's how far you can march, how much suffering you can manage, or how easy you find it to defecate in the woods.  Other times, with other reenactors, its penmanship.

One of the deep, dark secrets of "c/p/h" reenacting is that for most of us it is simply easier and more fun to camp with no more than you can carry on your back than it is to bring a wall tent, cot, and cooler, or to eat a period ration from your haversack than to try to duplicate a full course meal in dutch ovens.  The fact that you can then later boast of your prowess is just gravy.

But on the whole I hate our hobby definitions.  They apply only broadly at best and at worst have more to do with a need for cheap distinction than with history.  As I often tell my friends, if you want to show me how "hard-core" you are, run a marathon; if you want to show me how "authentic" you are, write me a letter with a dip pen.  

Some folks can do both, but they're just as likely to be undergraduates at a woman's college as they are to be reenactors of any stripe.

Dulcie,

And that is why the Common Ground was born. Remember what I stated in a post some time ago?

The authentic Campaigner is for the grad students (things can get real harsh for mainstreamers over there)

Here at the Common Ground, we are the undergraduate school where everybody from mainstreamers to ultra hard core folks can come and get along since we mods won't let people give any abuse (they may try and it might be a little while before we pull their post but we do monitor things very closely).

The CWR is more like the athletic fields where the different factions of the hobby "duke it out". You still need to be rather thick skinned over there even though there is some good information.

If you really want a challenge try the fraternities such as the Off Topic Boys or Hard Case Boys. A lot of fun but DEFINITELY not for the thin skinned.

Don't let the dtractors over there discourage you for I am sure many on that board will be there as well.

I look at things this way, there are events that are such Farb Fests I don't go, but I don't name them or bash them either as they are what they are. I do go to a couple of low end events with my unit each year primarily to have a good time with friends in a more laid back setting, many of these are early in the year and it's an opportunity for us to knock off the off season rust. I also enjoy the "hardocre" (or as I like to call then... history heavy) events hence why Bill and I refer to ourselves as fence sitters (yes Bill, I know you are the original   ).

One thing I would suggest is if the postings were abusive, notify the mods over there by clicking the alert button. That goes for here too, if anyone sees a post that is out of line, don't hesitate to alert us.  

--Last edited by toptimlrd on 2007-05-17 12:50:55 --

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if you want to show me how "hard-core" you are, run a marathon; if you want to show me how "authentic" you are, write me a letter with a dip pen.

What do you know, I'm authentic but not hard core.  

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Michael Schaffner wrote : One of the deep, dark secrets of "c/p/h" reenacting is that for most of us it is simply easier and more fun...

Ssh! You're not supposed to give away that secret.

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As I often tell my friends, if you want to show me how "hard-core" you are, run a marathon; if you want to show me how "authentic" you are, write me a letter with a dip pen.

 

I always hated the definition of "hardcore" that implied it was  all about how physically tough you were, as if the people of the 1860s who got sick, hurt, or were invalids, were somehow farby. Of course I know how the connotation got that way--when reenactors claimed to be portraying healthy soldiers on campaign yet needed all the modern comforts of home.

But I wish we'd get beyond that, because even if one wants to leave in the implications of self-discipline and self-denial, a lot of the "hardcore" effort, as it applies to "authenticity" is mental, rather than physical.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

You folks want to talk about "Hardcore", try taking your wife and a six year old Grand Daughter to an event. Especially since my wife figures it's child abuse if you can't change the kid's clothing at least four times during the event and feed her exactly what she eats, or doesn't eat at home. Oh yeah, a bath before bedtime is also considered a necessity! The wedge tent just barely contains their impedimenta, while I'm reduced to sleeping in my dog tent. The cooler has so much food, apple juice, and other non-alcoholic beverages, there's hardly room for my beer and I'm talking about the BIG cooler.

Funny thing is, I wouldn't miss these events for the world.  

I know a way to prove you're hardcore. Prove every event you've been to, you've stayed, in the rain since October 2003(It didn't rain at Winter of 64, it was too d$%#&d cold, temps in the teens with howling wind). HA! Beat that!


LOL!!!!!!!!

The problem I run into is mainly health issues. I have bad knees, and can't do the four to ten mile marches anymore.
(also sleeping on the ground isn't as fun.....

Ever see dismounted cavalry at anything other than a mainstream event? I'd love to give it a try, but there just isn't any room made for that type of "specialty" impression either by plan or accident. And, to be honest, the vast majority of us are so heavily mainstream (i.e. heavy camping, families, etc) that I doubt you could get more than a handful to participate at any one event.

One answer is to go "infantry" and give it a try. But, to me, that's akin to buying a Chevy for one event instead of staying with my trusty Ford. Maybe one day.........

Just as it's a good idea for everyone in the USA to go to a foreign country at least once, it's good for a CW reenactor to attend an event that is out of their perceived "comfort zone".  To be honest, it ain't that hard to fit in, and borrowing gear isn't all that difficult either.

Stretching our limits is how we learn and keep things fresh and interesting.  It doesn't mean you have to abandon your comrades from years past, or stop doing events you like.  It just adds experiences and new comrades.

I've participated in both mainstream and hardcore events, and I really had a great time at both. When I got started into reenacting, I fell in with a couple of great mainstream units that were really first rate as far as knowing the drill, and were really decent at maintaining good uniform appearance. Speaking for myself, I prefer mainstream events due to the fact that there are more of these held within my home area, and that I am already familiar with many of the participants at these events.

Roy Queen  

--Last edited by roy on 2007-09-26 00:33:31 --

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MStuart wrote : Ever see dismounted cavalry at anything other than a mainstream event?

Yep.

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Charles Heath wrote :   Yep.

Several years ago, my wife put on an event which I think most would consider p/h (Struggle for Statehood), and the only Confederates she needed were dismounted cavalry. Historically, their horses were still on winter pastures in North Carolina. Recruiting dismounted Confederate cavalry was like pulling teeth, and I think in the end they were all portrayed by those who usually do an infantry impression.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

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hanktrent wrote :   Several years ago, my wife put on an event which I think most would consider p/h (Struggle for Statehood), and the only Confederates she needed were dismounted cavalry. Historically, their horses were still on winter pastures in North Carolina. Recruiting dismounted Confederate cavalry was like pulling teeth, and I think in the end they were all portrayed by those who usually do an infantry impression. Hank Trent hanktrent@voyager.net

That would figure......a day late and a dollar short for me.

Mark

Yep. Yet another happened just this past weekend in Missouri, and I do recall one in Georgia, and a number of federal dismounted cavalry impressions along the way, as well as some ungunned artillery aka red infantry for the rebs.  The opportunities are out there. If we thought about it long enough, I'm sure a dozen or more events would come to mind.

As a note of humor, I recall going through a brigade we had decided upon for an impression, and noticed we'd hit the jackpot of bucktails, chasseurs, and sharpshooters in the mix. Oy! Thankfully, a couple of the roundout regiments were plain, everyday, kinda common folk.

This is a good topic that I actually ran into this past weekend at a small event close to home. First let me say that I do both MS and CPH events though over the past few years I have been a pretty hard guy to nail down to actually go to anything(sorry about that to those who know)So I go to what I can when to stars align and allow me to do so.
 I fell in with a MS unit that I have know and been apart of for most of the 10 years I have been in the hobby this past weekend. While sitting around the fire we were talking about events and ones that we would and would not go to. A few of the new guys that I didn't know so well where very much against anything CPH. The reason...what they have read on the forums and the internet. I took it as they saw the fighting on the forums as an insult on how they did things. I could see their point. Many of the old ideas of the scary CPH monster were brought up and was hopefully corrected on my part.
   I hope that some of those folks will one day try it but the damage was done to their minds as far as what this campaigner thing was all about. Many of these guys have never seen alot of the folks they read about or see posts from on the forums. The ideas are based on what they read not on the real thing. Not saying that its right that was just an eye opener for me.
   So the bottom line is that this forum(which is quickly becoming my favorite)is a really good thing for those who really just don't know. Its nice to see a place where both sides can talk and not bring more false notions to the table. Thanks for that.

[cit]ChrisOwens wrote : A few of the new guys that I didn't know so well where very much against anything CPH.[/quote]

Here's what I don't understand about that. Maybe somebody can explain.

Why don't mainstreamers, who dislike c/p/h individuals, just do things more accurately on their own?

It's not like the current crop of c/p/h individuals are the only "real" 1860s soldiers left and you have to associate with them if you want to be accurate. *Anyone* can be as accurate as they want to be, or put on any kind of event they want. There's nothing preventing anyone from reading the history books and trying to copy what's in there, among themselves, without even bothering to associate with people they don't like.

I'd guess mainstreamers do what they do because they're happy being less accurate. So no matter how nice the c/p/h'ers might be to them, the mainstreamers still wouldn't be interested in being more accurate, right? Because otherwise, they already would be.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Oops, double post!  

--Last edited by hanktrent on 2007-09-27 15:46:05 --

I'll add this. I haven't met the person, who didn't have a "good time" coming from the mainstream over to a C/P/H event, for the first time. "We" do not eat our dead or, pee on our buttons or, pee on our dead buttons.

And, sometimes, there's pie.

Hank and Dave,
I agree. I was once the guy who tried it and liked. I think its alot harder to come back from the CPH to the M.S. But, I still think that there is alot of false ideas about the CPH side in the minds of those on the other. Many of these ideas have been implanted for along time and may never be corrected. Though I will say that many times its used as a crutch.

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hanktrent wrote : [cit] Why don't mainstreamers, who dislike c/p/h individuals, just do things more accurately on their own?

Hank,

In many cases they do. There are many varations on a theme among the so called Mainstream side of the Hobby. What is considered acceptable behavior and/or kit varies greatly from unit to unit. As you well know, there is a sliding scale of authenticity in individuals, units, and events that goes from one end of the Hobby to the other and hardly anybody considers themselves to be a Farb. In terms of authenticity, events go from the local Ham and Yam Festivals to those few events where every participant lives the First Person life of the period from start to finish. You sould be well aware just how truly rare this type of event actually is. Heck, you and Linda organize most of them!

I don't want to put words in Chris' mouth, but I understand where his friends are coming from. Nobody wants to be told they are somehow inferior because they aren't members of the "right" units or are attending the "wrong" events. Especially since nobody seems to agree on what the right units and wrong events are, but they are sure willing to fight about it!

It goes to a basic premise of this forum, that people want to improve and learn, but there is no "right way" to reenact. As I like to say, this is a hobby and is supposed to be fun.