Here are several questions tossed out about what would best be described as a mainstream unit with progressive tendencies.  The reason this unit can’t get beyond “progressive tendencies” is family members are allowed to be present.  That last sentence is not a complaint.  It‘s just a statement of fact.

On the various Civil War forums there is talk of projected impetus the 150 anniversary events will provide for the hobby.  In the interval between then and now a sizeable proportion of this unit’s members will be retired from their occupations and drawing Social Security.  Is that a reason for concern?  Asked another way, is the average age of unit members a basis for anxiety?

How do you go about shifting leadership roles if the replacement cadre leaders are not available?  Is this a problem? If members are satisfied and no one wishes to be in line for leadership is the status quo a bad thing?  Along similar lines, how long can this situation continue to exist?

Curtis,

You have some very valid points regarding future leadership. The younger fellows with experience need to step up and fill the leadership roles. In any group including non civil war groups, I served a few years as president or whatever and then stepped back to let other people step in. In this hobby, too many fellows have stayed in charge for so long, no one has learned or wants to learn the leadership role be it in the field or administrative.

So, true about leadership roles. The unit I belong to keeps asking me to be a board member or a sargent.  I keep telling them I am getting too old for that, and it's time for our younger members to start running our unit.
I find with some other units it's a statis thing (being in charge) and the oldsters don't want to give it up.  Also you have to remember it's tuff for old guys (like me) to take orders from young wipersnappers.  So we have to remember we are doing this for the future of the hobby not for personal gain.  It's interesting for me a 53 yr old guy to take oders from our first sargent 18years old, and my own son who is 25.

Curtis, you really need to hook up with the WIG.  

What Charles said    .  

--Last edited by Ken Cornett on 2007-08-20 16:39:30 --

Hi Cris (Poor Private)
I am in my second year with the 6th Ohio.All the officers and NCO's are younger than me.(I am 57)We have a corporal or two still in their teens.But they are GOOD, *&^%*& Good, I would follow them anywhere.The 6th is a great outfit.I cannot march or fight with the young men so I cook.I have a great time.Bring on the young bloods and let them lead.

Pvt. Dan Girton Company A, 6th Ohio

Being one that is a family member in camp.... We do it because I am the one that loves reenactments. Hubby could care less if we go or not (although I do have to say that is changing and he is getting the bug!!! He was upset there are no more for us this yr!).  If families didnt stay together, then we wouldnt go.

With that said... its obvious we are mainstream because we are as family. Yet I try my hardest to make sure we could do either.

Our unit leader is also turning more towards hardcore. He knows I prefer the hardcore myself, and is having me lead the civilians towards it. It tends to be the women of the unit that are "dragged" into it and just throw on what they can.  

Oh... did I just say I am tending more towards hardcore?

Our unit is mainly young men though. I think my hubby (the ripe age of 37) is one of the oldest!

I don't think that family participation makes a unit mainstream, progressive or hardcore. I've seen mainstream male reeanctors attending events alone, and hardcore women attending events with young children.

It's more about each individual's choice of what they want to do during an event and what kinds of events they want to attend, whether they want to portray historic activities that match their age, gender, health, family situation, etc.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

just remember too... those of us who like hardcore may be in mainstream... but we can also change the mainstream unit

hmm... i need a new picture of me.

There's nothing wrong with supporting your unit at events where family/non-military are welcomed.  The same is true about heading out with just the military comrades on weekends where the local unit isn't attending something and there's somewhere you want to go that doesn't allow for the usual family involvement.  Some of us do it quite often.

Quote :

flattop32355 wrote : There's nothing wrong with supporting your unit at events where family/non-military are welcomed.    Some of us do it quite often.

Bernie,

Thank you! Please see my post concerning the Hibernia event. I had a great time, but wouldn't want to make a complete diet of such events. Wouldn't want to do nothing but the more authentic events either. That fence is a pretty good place to be!  

Quote :

hanktrent wrote : I don't think that family participation makes a unit mainstream, progressive or hardcore. I've seen mainstream male reeanctors attending events alone, and hardcore women attending events with young children. It's more about each individual's choice of what they want to do during an event and what kinds of events they want to attend, whether they want to portray historic activities that match their age, gender, health, family situation, etc. Hank Trent hanktrent@voyager.net

Correct, it's HOW the family participates that determines where they fall in the spectrum. The problem with Families in units at events is they tend to camp On the Military street in wall tents with a flat gabled tent fly Settin' Porch out in front. You hear the 6 year old asking for the Pop Tarts while you're cooking up breakfast. The family (that's 1) brings enough iron to sink a boat, and needs firewood enough to heat an army.To me, that's the 'fine' line between Mainstream and Farb. If you've got civilians in the military camp, you are a Farb.

When units allow that sort of stuff....I simply join another unit or attend another event...... a big disappointment for me at A140 was the families camping with Vincent's Brigade. Cars parked in camp, civilian's cooking up a storm, kid's playing bang bang your dead 'army' at 7AM......

so Hank, I hear where you are coming from.....but that's not how civilians play at mainstream events.

Quote :

so Hank, I hear where you are coming from.....but that's not how civilians play at mainstream events.

You're right, because those are the kind of civilians that mainstream events are designed to attract. The mainstream military will generally either actively push away non-mainstream civilians, or at least not give them any incentive to attend. So guess what civilians are left?

It's not just civilians forcing a mainstream experience on military camps. Military will force it on civilians, too. I've been off minding my own business at mainstream events as a civilian, and over come soldiers who sit down at my fire, pull out their modern food and booze and cigarettes, drop their modern trash in my firepit, ramble on about the internet and every modern topic you can think of without letting me get a word in edgewise.

It's hard for any reenactor to get anything but a mainstream experience at a mainstream event. If that's what a reenactor wants, great. If it's not, like you, I try to find something more compatible. But obviously there are plenty of families and soldiers who enjoy camping together mainstream style, or it wouldn't happen so often.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net  

so your basically saying that any of us women that are interested should just leave it to the men?  yah... i dont think so.  if im going to be farb just by being there, thats your opinion.

thats the reason we stay mainstream.

im not going to say anymore at this point as it would probably all be taken out of context.. or maybe not.

Quote :

hanktrent wrote :   It's hard for any reenactor to get anything but a mainstream experience at a mainstream event. Hank Trent hanktrent@voyager.net

Hank,

It seems to me that you are indeed caught between a rock and a hard place. You are correct, it is very difficult to get more out of an event than the event offers. Problem is, there's not a lot of events that offer exactly what you are looking for. In the example you mentioned, my only suggestion would be to come out of first person long enough to tell these folks that they were ruining your experience and they should either get with the program or move on.    

Quote :

chatrbug wrote : so your basically saying that any of us women that are interested should just leave it to the men?

Not sure who you're addressing, RJ maybe? But the solution is simple. If you want to be more accurate, go to events where civilians are given a chance to reenact in a more accurate context, either civilian-only or in conjunction with military.

What are you doing Oct 5-7? If you want to see a different option for civilian reenacting, there's room for another family with Linda and me at October 1862 in Loudoun Co., VA. We've got permission to start Friday evening rather than Saturday morning, and if we cross paths with the military, they're expecting to treat us as real civilians in the period would have been treated.

Quote :

if im going to be farb just by being there, thats your opinion.  thats the reason we stay mainstream.

Actually, I don't think it's just RJ's opinion. In almost all historic situations, civilians camping with the military on the company street, as he described is inaccurate, i.e. farb. We might as well call a spade a spade. There are inaccuracies (farbisms) that need overlooked at every event, due to both necessity and choice, and some reenactors choose to overlook what RJ described, while others don't. It's all about the experience each reenactor is looking for.

Bill Rodman wrote:

Quote :

Problem is, there's not a lot of events that offer exactly what you are looking for. In the example you mentioned, my only suggestion would be to come out of first person long enough to tell these folks that they were ruining your experience and they should either get with the program or move on

Nope. The way I see it, at a mainstream event, they have a perfect right to do that, and they could just as easily claim I'm ruining their experience by asking them to change or move on, and tell me I should either shut up or go away. "More accurate" does not necessarily trump "less accurate" at a mainstream event.

What I generally do nowadays is look for a carpe eventum, where a smaller group can reenact the way they want and there's enough of a critical mass that they can afford to ignore the others.

You'd be surprised, though, how many events offer guidelines pretty much what I'm looking for, even with the further stipulation that I'd really rather portray a civilian or non-combatant. I've got six, maybe seven, on the schedule this year (eight if ATB hadn't been cancelled), with only two additional mainstream ones.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Quote :

hanktrent wrote :   Nope. The way I see it, at a mainstream event, they have a perfect right to do that, and they could just as easily claim I'm ruining their experience by asking them to change or move on, and tell me I should either shut up or go away. "More accurate" does not necessarily trump "less accurate" at a mainstream event.

Hank,

One of the things that seems to be missing from our society is a little common respect for the other guy. As an example, if I came across you, or others, doing a first person impression, I would do my very best not to piss in your cornflakes. By the same token, I would not expect you, or others, to throw a hissy fit if you walked into my camp and saw or heard something that was incorrect for the period; as long as what we were doing was within the rules of the event.

It seems like a pretty simple concept. Sad to say, after twenty years in the Hobby, I know it isn't.

Quote :

chatrbug wrote : so your basically saying that any of us women that are interested should just leave it to the men?  yah... i dont think so.  if im going to be farb just by being there, thats your opinion.

Dulcie,

If you are happy with the events you are attending and enjoy what you are doing at those events, that's what counts. Remember, it's your weekend and your hobby. It doesn't matter one pinch of salt what anybody else thinks about what you are doing. or how you do it.

Bill typed the key word - HOBBY -

Some folks build model airplanes from the plastic kits you can buy at K-Mart. Some folks build model airplanes out of sticks and canvas with electronic controls and gas motors. Both are perfectly happy with what they're doing. Why doesn't that apply to our hobby?

It is readily apparent some people expect more from the Civil War reenactment hobby and some considerably less.  Equally apparent is there are those whose curiosity about things of the Civil War does not run as deep as the more zealous.  Some are content and comfortable where they are while others are heavily involved in gaining more of whatever they are seeking.  There are those who want a full course meal served on the finest of china, accompanied by the best silver and crystal in an impeccable atmosphere.  Then there are those who are equally content with the Valu-Meal eaten out of a styrofoam box.  Both have eaten and both are filled.

Just like those diners, there are differing aspects of this hobby.  How these differences are perceived is a sensitive issue that raises its share of hackles.  The diverse levels of expectations have created their own demarcations.  The hobby, as it presently exists, is a kaleidoscope of differing divisions.

This Civil War reenactment hobby is divided several ways.  Perhaps it is divided in more ways than we care to admit.  The most ubiquitous are the mainstream, progressive, campaign, hardcore divisions.  The philosophical merits of each are frequently discussed.  At times the discussion will develop into a debate, occasionally a heated debate  The more combustible of these debates are normally down hill affairs, meaning the person with the purest gospel is prophetically preaching from a presumed pinnacle-like lofty position to those minions who have yet to reach that rarified level of whatever the topic of the moment happens to be.  It is not unusual for these non-spiritual homiletic sessions to degenerate into an exchange of unpleasantries which have to be toned down by moderators/administrators or other leaders.

There is a universal understanding that the standard was set by those lads in the first half of the 1860 decade.  The campaigner facet has its manifesto and attempts to abide by it no matter which events are attended.  Then there are those whose stated intention is to follow event guidelines.  Involved in this same mix are units, as well as individuals, seeking their identity, purpose, trying to bring order to a nebulous organizational existence, or locate a comfort zone.  Then there are those who claim they have all of this solidly nailed down but in reality that is not the case.  

There are those who extol the virtues of non-profit versus incorporated and vice versa.  There is the same going on between by laws adherents and those espousing charters.

There are events deemed to be better quality events and those of lesser quality.  However, no one purposefully sets out to host an event of lesser quality.  The parameters equating quality are simple enough for the practitioners of that level but are tenuous at best for those not in the information loop.  There are “invitation only” events designed solely for a selected clientele and those events with open arms wanting everybody, anybody, the kitchen sink, and any attached plumbing.  There are “filthy lucre” driven events where profit is the underpinning objective The meek and mighty send in their preregistration dollars.  A significant proportion of the dollar senders don’t question the cumulative dollar totals and benignly assume all is well in the world of arriving preregistration dollars while the cynical presume something more self serving is in the works.  This type of thing is contrasted against those events attempting to raise funds for a widely recognized worthy undertaking.  Along the same lines as these are memorials, dedications, and presentations of one kind or another.  No matter how much contrariness is purported among the devotees of these diverse approaches each is willing to announce to any and all theirs is the preferred.

There are those who are attracted to the hobby for the history or, perhaps, their take on history.  Of course, there is the heritage not hate crowd whose purpose is preservation in some form.  There are some scattered through out the hobby who find a measure of success in this hobby that alludes them in the real world.  Often times, it is these stalwarts who have a difficult time grasping the notion that rank is strictly a make believe concept.  To them, there is nothing pretend about it.  Then there is that bunch involved in the hobby because of its alcoholic content and raucous night life.  These represent the edges.  Between the edges are acres of camp fires with differing degrees of submersion, rapport, and in-house politics.

Among the practitioners are those who do military and those who do other impressions.  Those represent various branches of military service and even different nuances of those, such as administrative paperwork, food preparation, and higher levels of command.  Then there are a plethora of impressions all lumped together and simply referred to as civilian.  None of these military or civilian impressions is a matter of right or wrong.  Of course each of these falls into differing degrees of perceived correctness, ie., mainstream, progressive, campaign, hardcore.  Each has its niche and there are those who will vociferously defend their niche.  Examples of this ilk are dismounted cavalry, horseless artillery, chaplains sans congregations, officers without any unit members, surgeons without medical paraphernalia, civilians with no visible impression, and civilian who simply don’t want to be soldiers.

A not so obvious division is caused by weather.  The hobby’s busy time in the northern realm of this country is a down time on the opposite end.  Here along the edge of the Gulf Coast this hobby takes a bit of a hiatus during June, July, and August.  Debilitating heat takes some of the luster out of wool garments.  
August and wool on the Gulf Coast are not a good combination.  Cold winter weather becomes a reason for alarm up north.  The Gulf Coast region never quite gets around to having real winter.  Winter just flirts with the Gulf Coast.   My gosh, the sighting of a single snow fake will close down the entire county.

The hobby seems to be divided geographically.  Perhaps it would be more charitable to say geographically challenged.  There are those who will not get out of their immediate area. It seems to make no difference that these small local  events they attend reek.  Just because it is there year after year they keep attending.  “Ain’t no way we a-gwine off cross dat air state line.  Jist ain’t gwine a hoppen.  No sir-ree.  Ain’t gwine a.”  It is these who exalt the virtues of the Podunk Volunteer Fire Department Community Heritage Day, Gospel Sing, Rodeo, and Oyster Shucking Festival as “wun sho nuff fine eeevint.”  Drop the exaggerated Boss Hogg-like drawl, add a different tonal inflection to the speech pattern, shift this whole scenario to another part of the country, and the situation remains basically unchanged.

Along with this mind set is the habit of attending the same undeviating annual events year in and year out.  There is suspicion of anything that is not familiar.  None of our people know anything about it so the “we ain’t gwine a go standard” is hoisted and its defense becomes uncompromising.  If worse comes to worse it can be declared too far to travel.

Further geographic juxtapositioning comes about by mutual back scratching.  The practice of mutual back scratching has as much to do with setting unit event schedules as any other item.  “If you come to my event my unit will come to yours.”  This type of thing is primarily restricted to leadership elements.  It is an extensively used technique in those outfits equating numbers with quality.  They will go to places for no other reason than to obligate those fine lads and lasses and kids, neighbor’s kids, girl friends, boy friends, grandkids, grandparents, ex-spouses, a spare dog or so, and other assorted hangers on to bring that menagerie to your pet event so they can be counted.  Numbers are all important.  As long as the numbers are good so is all else.

Leadership is always a critical issue.  The unit’s continued existence revolves around the proper application of it.  In some cases, unit leaders are perpetually in their position, maintaining a benevolent dictatorship. In every nuance of the word, it is “his” unit. Depending on the individual in charge, this can be a blessing or a plague.  In a worse case scenario, it is only the unit leader who determines what is going to be placed on the schedule. These schedules end up being a listing of the aforementioned mutual back scratching affairs where if you come to the event I host my unit will attend yours. These become cyclical year after year. The unit is converted into the stage upon which this person struts and postures.  Familiarity is sought. Variety is shunned. “We’ve always done it this way” is the undeviating creed and “we ain‘t gwine a change nairn “ is its foundation.   The opposite of this stifling type leader would be a creative, dynamic leader who continually seeks personal as well as unit wide progress.  In between the two extremes is where most Civil War reenactment unit leadership lies.

Others solve the leadership question by sponsoring much ballyhooed leadership elections.  New faces are seldom seen because usually the same elected positions are passed among a select few.  On those occasions when an energetically vibrant new leader is elected it would remain to be seen what happens to the status quo.  Some times the status quo is more important than any individual.

Some units appear to be run by a committee.  Depending on the functionality of the committee, that may not be a totally bad concept.  However, if the committee is made up of the same people who are perpetually elected to rank holding positions year after year, there is very little difference between that and the commander forever model.

There comes a time when a change in leadership would be a healthy thing for the continued existence of the unit, but, sadly enough, the replacement cadre is not available.  So, the same group or individual continues on for lack of a suitable understudy.

Participation expectations differ throughout the hobby.  Some want to turn participation on and turn participation off throughout the weekend.   When the viewing public departs Saturday afternoon the show is over.  Therefore, it is turned off.  When the viewing public returns the next day the show is turned back on.  In the interval between, all of the modern day conveniences come out from under blankets, some more--some less.

Other types of events are run differently and the accompanying participation also differs.  There is no fluctuation.  They want it “on” for the duration.  There are those who want nothing less than full bore, undeviating period correctness from the moment they walk away from the event parking area until they return to their vehicle.  They anticipate experiencing the Civil War era soldier way of life uninterrupted for the entirety of the weekend, 24/7.  

Taking these a step further, there are those who will do a first person impression for the whole event.  Others will do it while the crowd is present.  And then there is that contingent who do not feel they are quite up to do a first person presentation just yet.  Of course, there will always be some who have no intention of doing any such thing.

There is the living history contingent whose expectations differ from the group whose priority is burning copious amounts of black powder.  The battle boys disdain the living history people because of their boring existence.  The living history group holds the battle boys in scorn because of their dramatic exuberance.  Then there are those who drift in and out and between those two opposing viewpoints trying to coexist with each.  

Some reenactments units try as best they can to replicate the Civil War military.  Their day is structured in a military manner doing military type things.  On the other end of the pole lie those reenactment units that have developed such a rapport among their members the unit more resembles a fraternal/benevolent organization than anything Civil War.  Those peoples’ expectation is camaraderie with their peers and the event itself is of little consequence.  They generate neither interest in anything the event has to offer nor participation in it.  It is simply used as a venue for their social interactions with their acquaintance while wearing funny looking clothing.  Naturally, there are other Civil War reenactment units who fall at various locals on the scale between these extremes.

There are those who are not going to wear the opposing color because it will turn dear old great grandpapa out of his grave.  They would be offended at the idea of galvanizing. Their passion is normally connected in some vague manner to heritage, or rather their personal interpretation of it.

Another division is those who participate in available Civil War forums and those who either eschew them or are completely unaware of their existence.  On several of the forums there have been posts inquiring why more Civil War reenactors don’t participate in their cyber discussions?  How many times have you read something written by some poor soul with a single digit number of posts whose keyboard naively provoked the equivalent of a computer generated crucifixion?   Some of the stalwarts on these sites have honed their denigration skills to the point where vilification and disparagement approaches libelous slander.  After one of these meat grinder sessions is it any wonder the poor browbeaten guy or gal hesitates before sallying forth onto another on line board?  No one enjoys getting their tail feather pulled by some techno-tyrant hiding behind a fictitious user name.  

The statement “I belong to a Civil War reenactment unit” is in some ways akin to the statement “I belong to a church.”  There are a plethora of religious denominations with a broad range of religious practices.  Some are ceremonially formal and their worship features strictly orchestrated rites.  Others are less so, with the extreme appearing to be frivolous and superficial.  Some have a ritualistic creed while others appear to have none at all. Members of these denominations run the gamut from being sanctimoniously devout and spiritually committed to their denomination’s dogma to others being nothing less than hard down flippant.  There are those who are mellow, domineering, shallow, and exuberantly charismatic.  Some members consider it a near breach of faith if they miss a single church sponsored activity.  Church attendance is the dominate feature in their lives.  The opposite extreme is quite content with an Easter and Christmas only attendance pattern.  Some diligently try to live their lives by their denomination’s standard and others seldom think such thoughts.  Organized religion shares a similarity to this hobby in the various facets’ willingness to lay claim to the only true doctrine.  Each denomination wants its loyal faithful to believe their version has cornered all religious truth while the others are still searching.  Of course there are the purest devotees who will unwavering claim all others are flawed.  Another similarity is there is always some well meaning parishioner, convinced of his correctness in all things, ever willing to snipe from concealment.

This Civil War reenactment hobby is a complex equation.  Indeed it is.