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Bill wrote :   Truth be known, it seems the majority of folks who attend the more authentic events are fence sitters. Either that, ot they don't attend a lot of events!

I think there's a distinction. Attend a mainstream (or farb) event and act like a mainstreamer (or farb) for the pure joy of being mainstream (or farb). I'd call that the classic fence-sitter.

There's also attending another style of event while trying to keep to your own reenacting style as much as possible, stretching the guidelines and/or trying to find others who also want to do what you do, within the larger event. Which could mean finding someone else who wants to sneak off and go modern at a c/p/h event, just as much as trying to be more accurate at a mainstream event.

I don't think that's really fence-sitting, so much as just doing the same thing and disregarding the written or implied standards of the event you're at. That's what I do, and sometimes people like it, sometimes they hate it. Just like some events enforce the minimum standards more strictly than others, some enforce the maximum standards more strictly than others.

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On my little poll of what Top Tier CPH events people were attending, only one person suggested he might attend more than three. For the rest of the folks, that makes for a pretty light schedule. Am I missing something?

Ironically, that was me, and I'm also definitely attending one other c/p/h event, Perryville Down on the Farm, and considering the c/p/h Death March. So there are other c/p/h opportunities that just don't happen to be in the top eight.

As far as non-c/p/h, I'll probably do a local one-day timeline event that I'd say is farb, and if not Glendale then Selma (mainstream). At the timeline, each person does their own thing for the tours, so you're allowed to be as accurate as you want, and the nitre works at Selma is a weird little niche where we can do what we want independently of others, and all we need is their pee.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net  

--Last edited by hanktrent on 2008-01-19 10:50:32 --

Bill, take a look at the Mess No.1 site and see our schedule. Not all of the events are in the tiers created on the AC.  We like to do that.  We like to do the obscure authentic events at times.  

Fence sitters is such an ambiguous term. To me it can mean two things:

1. A mainstream type reenactor who wants to attend an authentic
  event and may do so once every couple years.

2. A CPH type of reenactor who still associates with his old
  mainstream buddies because he never forgot his roots.

Of course, what do I know   .

It's probably just a matter of semantics, but I lean more towards fence-straddler than fence-sitter.

Sitter implies to me someone who doesn't know what they want, no matter the subject concerned, and so does nothing, not making a choice either way.

Straddler, to me, denotes someone who has a foot in both camps, and is not afraid to step across the divide in either direction, as they so choose.

Which ever words one uses, it should be recognized that those of us (yeah, I include myself in the catagory, though some may not) who sit/straddle the divide do so in an active, rather than passive, sense.  It's a conscious decision to seek out a variety of experiences based upon a number of criteria.

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flattop32355 wrote : Which ever words one uses, it should be recognized that those of us (yeah, I include myself in the catagory, though some may not) who sit/straddle the divide do so in an active, rather than passive, sense.  It's a conscious decision to seek out a variety of experiences based upon a number of criteria.

Bernie,

You are such a smooth talker. Have you been hanging around with Bill Watson?  

Bill, there is probably something to be said for folks who attend one mainstream event (or worse) every 2 or 3 years as well as 8-10 higher quality events each year, as possibly not being a fence sitter. The converse is also true.  Perhaps a more accurate descrïption would entail noting those who attend a somewhat even amount of bottom 3 and top 3 events.

Just a thought.

First event of the year is over. Time to head to Winter 1864.

It's really interesting what we want from the events we attend and how we choose to participate in those events. It probably doesn't matter, as long as our activities don't infringe on other people's enjoymnet of those same events.

There are lots of events with varying degrees of authenticity. As long as the folks attending those events are willing to meet or exceed the rules and guidelines set by those events; what difference does it make what they call themselves?

There are folks who will never be happy. Those who expect every event to meet their goals and expectations and those whose goals and expectations don't fit what the events, they attend, have to offer.

Of course, there are events that set up expectation they can't or won't fulfill. Those events make almost everybody unhappy.  

 

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flattop32355 wrote : It's probably just a matter of semantics, but I lean more towards fence-straddler than fence-sitter. Sitter implies to me someone who doesn't know what they want, no matter the subject concerned, and so does nothing, not making a choice either way. Straddler, to me, denotes someone who has a foot in both camps, and is not afraid to step across the divide in either direction, as they so choose. Which ever words one uses, it should be recognized that those of us (yeah, I include myself in the catagory, though some may not) who sit/straddle the divide do so in an active, rather than passive, sense.  It's a conscious decision to seek out a variety of experiences based upon a number of criteria.

Mr. Beiderman,
I would think that the fence straddling could hurt,especially if it is one of those picket kinds.
I just wanted to add my .02 worth to the metaphor.  

--Last edited by Parault on 2008-01-20 17:16:40 --

In the absence of any generally agreed upon or objective definition of the terms defining various wings of the hobby, there is no fence.  There are just attitudes and assumptions.  If you really care about history, then the question of your status with a particular faction of on-line commentators becomes secondary.  The compulsion to classify may be irresistible to some folks, but it hasn't anything to do with learning about the civil war.

Isn't it amazing what can be discussed on any given forum?

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Bill wrote :Bernie, You are such a smooth talker. Have you been hanging around with Bill Watson?

Every chance I get.  There's a lot worse company I could keep.

Hey,

Ok so its 3am Georgia time, my daughter is awake so I have to be awake till she decides to go back to sleep. Anyways I was looking through threads and saw this one. Just to throw my nickel’s worth in here. Keep in mind this is all from perspective based on reenacting trends in GA.  
I think there are way too many mainstream events a year. I know since I got in about 10 years back the number of yearly mainstream events has doubled and attendance has thusly been cut in half at each one. The trend I have seen is that a lot of mainstream groups just want to have their own events, either because they got banned from one, couldn’t(didn’t want to try) meet a simple standard/guideline request, or just cause they want to go on a power trip.   I personally saw 5 events spring up last year just for the sake of having one, no historical context and no reason, heck one is held at a flea market. The problem is that they are directly hurting every other event. This is really horrible when there are a couple of events that do donate all their profits to preservation of the battle they “portray” but they have to compete with events on or around the same weekend that just turn a profit to have another “Battle of Y’all come”. I don’t know maybe it’s just late and I am having mental diarrhea but I am just sick and tired of it. Yes I do lean more to the C/P/H side but I have roots in a mainstream group, nope not doing Missionary work but mentoring several guys to bring the over to the dark side.

Peace out Moon doggies, the Goob is going back to bed and so is her Daddy.

Mr. Gangler, my tendency is to agree with what you have written about the hobby here in the Southland.  The bunch of Civil War pretenders I associate with is broken down into two groups and each has its own event schedule with a few that are attended by both.  Between New Years and Memorial Day there are a combined 30 entries on those two schedules.  These include legit reenactments, some living histories, fire your volley and go home type memorial services, and appearances at local  festivals.  Spreading this out even further, some of us that are more simple minded than others get involved in show and tell type programs at schools, various civic type organizations, and even one at a local church prayer breakfast (That was well received)

There are a lot of complimentary things that can be said about this bevy of activity.  There are also some other things that are not so complementary.  Predominate among them is what has already been mentioned:  Dilution!

This is a recognized dilemma.  Preventing its resolution are stepped on toes.  A sizeable number of events have staked out their weekend and are not giving it up.  They are all for the other guys going to an every other year basis or even completely dropping off the screen, but not them.   There is also the dynamic of mutual back scratching mixed into this situation.  Toss in strong personalities, lots of ego, and “my event” becomes turf begging for defense.

Knowing what needs to be done is one thing, but actually doing the culling is another altogether.  

--Last edited by Curtis Makamson on 2008-03-18 08:22:40 --

Gee Curtis, I believe you are describing Civil War reenacting   !

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Curtis Makamson wrote : Knowing what needs to be done is one thing, but actually doing the culling is another altogether.

There in lies the dilemma. I belong to an umbrealla group here in GA and have sat in on the meetings and voiced my opinions about events, mainly in wanting to cull the herd. I may have accomplished more by arguing with a brick wall. The worse idea was suggesting them to stop putting on one of their events............you would have thought I had slapped their mommas. The beauty of it was the answer given for not giving the event up even though they all recognize the drain it puts on them. They said they could not stop putting on because they didn't want another group to get ahold of the property. What the heck man? It is horrible that  grown a$$ people cannot come together for a common goal.  This past year as a group they chose not to support a superior event so they could go help the handful of guys who come to their sponsored event. They spend half the year preparing for their event and the other half going to bad events to thank those few who came to "their" event. I think though they are finally learnign the hard way about things, most of their units are voting with their feet and not supporting them like they feel they should. Sorry I didn't mean  to go off on a rant here.   I hate hobby politics.  

As an interested observer of the Byzantine intricacies of palace politics in this hobby, one soon notices the Peter Principle, high expectations, pucker power, turf, and Robert’s Rules of Order are all blended to form a soupy version of No Reenactor Left Behind.

When it comes committee forming time that is a strong hint the people in a decision making capacity are lacking said capacity.  The issue (whatever it is) can be circumvented by procedure.  A case in point is those higher headquarters that have stooped to the delightful little items called voting cards.  Only those worthies with a voting card can vote on voting matters.  All others sit and observe the proceedings and the proceedings are indeed worthy of observation.  After multiple amendments to motions, the ensuring discussion that only ends after the final molecule of air has been expelled from the last set of lungs, all of the sycophants have their “hey, look at me” allotment filled, a final amendment will be made to form a committee that will bring the issue before this grand entourage at the next scheduled gathering of illustrious voting card totting personages.  Then, you cycle through an indeterminate time of credential assessment ascertaining if the committee members are the right flavor.  A chairperson has to be appointed.  Naturally, there has to be a liaison to keep all interested parties (of which there are precious few) informed of committee do-it-to-its. In other words, after all of the wasted palaver, posturing (Well, posturing is never wasted if the right people take notice,) and pretentiousness, the issue is shuffled off to a committee that conducts its only meeting in the parking lot just prior to the next assemblage of the duly anointed voting card carrying beings.  Naturally, since this is such a sensitive issue, more time will have to be expended before the committee is comfortable its findings can be released.  Outside experts may have to be consulted.  

The issue is still an issue.  Instead of being addressed, a quagmire has been substituted.  Thusly, the committee forming procedure becomes surrogate progress.  Everybody is happy.

Takes us three meetings to finalize our schedule but our priorites generally run this way.

1) We support as many local parades and school educational events as possible.
2) Events that are presented to us by a member in their home community supporting a local historical group.
3) Events we traditionally have enjoyed attending.
4) Recommendations of our parent group.

Previously we have attended events because they gave us donations which we put towards preservation and education and organization expenses.

Recently however we find ourselves in the enviable postion of have a wealth of money due to our major educational commitments.  Most of this money has be put towards preservation however it has allowed us to drop some small donation events in favor of large events at which we can get or name out or do a fair amount of recruiting.  Even if the event does not provide us with a donation.

The biggest problem for us is not really too many events but too many events right on top of each other.  I think right now we are committed to three Memorial Day Parades.

And the unit had to make a choice between the two Gettysburg events.

That sometimes leads to burnout.