I was wondering how many of you live fire your rifle-muskets on a regular basis? By the same token, how many of you have never fired your weapons and have no interest in doing so?

Bill,

I have live fired my muskets a few times just to get the feeling of shooting live. That being said after firing the musket I had the breech pulled just to be sure no lead rings were left. I few fellows I know have two barrels, one for live firing and I for events. I usually only fire my Sharps Rifle live now and it has been a few years. The Sharps being a breech loader is easier to check for lead particles etc left in barrel.

I never have fired my weapons live and don't intend to, though I've had invitations from time to time and might at some point accept one.  I have no philosophical or practical reason not to, except that I've never hunted and haven't been on a range since I was a kid.

Plus, my wife and I have always been a pair of quasi-hippie liberal arts lefties with the other interests to match.  When I started this hobby I remember her shaking her head and saying gravely, "I can't believe we're actually going to have a gun in the house."

I said, "Honey, it's an 1861 Springfield rifle-musket, a muzzle-loader.  I'm not going to take it to the nearest high school and shoot all the jocks."

Now I have three.

Quote :

Marc wrote : Bill, That being said after firing the musket I had the breech pulled just to be sure no lead rings were left. I few fellows I know have two barrels, one for live firing and I for events.

Marc,

IMHO, none of that is necessary. It's pretty simple. Just clean your weapon as usual, with one simple precaution. Use a brass jag that fits the barrel. That "clink" when the jag hits the breach tells you the barrel is free of any obstructions. To be double sure, I use a bore light and mirror to check out the barrel for any lead fouling in the rifling.

Think about it. The skirt on a Minnie Ball is about 1/16" thick. There's almost no way a jag is going to miss that. Any tiny little sliver of lead that might be missed, would be no more dangerous than the muzzle blast you get when firing blanks.

As Curt says "Other people's mileage may vary".    

  Hallo!

 Speak of the Devil and who shows up?

 I was in the N-SSA for 17 years and have fired about 20,000-some musket and 15,000 Smith or Sharps carbine rounds.
 But since it is a different hobby, I never used my "reenacting" guns as they were not "competitive" enough to win "medals."

 IMHO, the whole "ring" thing is somewhat of a necessary evil but it is driven by the lowest common denominator of trying to IP (Idiot Proof) things.
 "Rings" are segmented pieces of a Minie's skirt that get retained in the breech and not expelled with the rest of the round.  They are segmented because of improper casting techniques and the lack of inspection before use.
 
  When the mold and/or lead are not at the proper temperature,  rapid cooling allows the lead to form bands or segments in the mold instead of a one piece bullet.  Expanding the skirt at powder ignition can cause them to separate and detach.

 The greatest danger lies with the new or lazy bullet caster, or worse yet with the commercial Minies that are mass produced without regard to quality casting or inspection.  These are most likely the ones to be used by the newcomer and "casual plinker" who wants to try live-fire but does not want to spend the bucks to buy casting equipment just to be able to shoot a few times.

 So we sink to the level of the common denominator in the perceived guise of "safety."

 On the other hand, we do not do a good job of event weapon inspection(s) anyways, and a detached ramrod end or cleaning jag tip is just as likely (if not more so because most everyone cleans but not everyone shoots live).

Others' mileage will vary...

 El Diablo Curt

The last time my musket was fire live was by another member of out unit and he ram the round in then put the powder in.  Just like story of the real soldiers during the Civil War.  It took me several months and a new rammer to get the round out so I haven't fire live since and won't loan my muske to anyone again.

I've got a spare barrel for such purposes.  Mostly, I wanted to see 1)how the kick compared between powder only and bullet with powder, and 2)how fast I could reasonably load rounds with bullets compared to powder only.

The results from both tests were impressive.  

I'm just about convinced that "three rounds per minute" is based upon Fire-Load-Fire-Load-Fire rather than L-F-L-F-L-F.

Two of our members own a farm in an area without firearms firing restrictions.  We shoot targets down in a depression from the ridgetop when we have Basic Training or company picnics.  Weapons are not limited to CW period.

I've never fired a live round from my musket nor have I hunted in at least 30 years.

Nevertheless, I long to fire a live round to experience the feeling that my great grandfather would have felt when he fired his back in '63-64 except it would not be out of necessity.

Some few years ago a group of us ventured off to a local Department of Civilian Marksmanship affiliated range with a potpourri of replica Civil War muzzleloaders.  I don’t remember how many people or weapons were involved.  There was a rifled ‘42, a gaggle of Enfields (3 banders, 2 banders, and couple of Musketoons,) a Springfield or so, and two Mississippi Rifles that I recall.  All of the participations were familiar with range type shooting.  A couple of them had shot competitively.  Using a bench rest position (and a recoil absorbing pad for aging shoulders) an attempt was made to zero the point of impact with the sight picture.  With the exception of a single Musketoon previously used during black powder deer season, the commonality was bullet impact being way, way off of the sighting point.  If my memory is correct, I want to recall most shot high.  One Mississippi Rifle’s sights were off so badly its first shot down range clipped the target board of the adjacent target instead of the one at which it was aimed.  At the end of that session there were not any lead rings.  The surprise was one of the Musketoons consistently shot a tighter group than the longer barreled weapons.  Even when the weapons were switched among shooters that single short barreled Musketoon continued to maintain its accuracy edge.

I should add I have also fired artillery live....now that is a blast....Napolean, 3" Ordnance Rifle and 10lb Parrott. Don't stand behind the piece when firing it rolls back quite quickly.

Quote :

Marc wrote : I should add I have also fired artillery live....now that is a blast....Napolean, 3" Ordnance Rifle and 10lb Parrott.

Marc,

That's neat. It's also the reason I think people ought to fire their weapons live, at least until they are comfortable with the loading operation, the recoil, and the effects of 500 grains of soft lead, when it hits something. It gives you a whole new appreciation of what the soldiers had to deal with.

You mentioned the recoil when cannons are fired. I wonder how many reenactors ever think about that?

Everybody has their own thing, but I never had much interest in NSAA type shooting, where weapons have modified sights and are usually fired with reduced loads. As Curt mentioned, a standard weapon doesn't stand a chance in this type of shooting.

My thing is to shoot, with a standard rifle, using the charges that were used during the Civil War. You have to deal with more recoil, more fouling, and less accuracy. If you've ever held a rifle between you knees, while you use both arms and your body weight to get a round seated, it really makes the reality of Civil War combat hit home.

Curtis, I'm far from an expert, but I've found all my repro rifles shoot high, at a 100 yards, using a 60 grain power charge. At 50 yards, they really shoot high. It's the "rainbow" trajectory, that makes long range shooting with these weapons so difficult. The lack of quality control on reproduction weapons is another major issue. I own one rifle, where the rifling is so shallow, only an oversized bullet will work.      

Bill,

For the artillery shooting we used standard civil war loads 2lbs for the Napolean and 1lb for the Ordnance Rifle and Parrott Rifle. We fired at targets 1200 yds away. Of course the rifled guns were quite accurate and canister shot from the Napolean at life size cutouts at 400 yds proved very deadly to the cutout.

I shoot mine frequently. I always clean it out and then use a bronze brush to “scrub” the bore just in case there is any lead, then some Hoppes and patches. The Musketoon may have been more accurate because it had been used before (it had been used for hunting). Seasoning a barrel does affect the accuracy. My Enfield is starting to shoot pretty well at 100 yards. I can now hit a bowling pin off hand. When I first got it new, I couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn off the bags. Seasoned the barrel, and reduced the charge a tad, and she shoots ok.

  Hallo!

 Plus, the actual sight pictures on reproduction guns are pretty poor. While the originals tend to be "crisper," even they are not the best for really accurate (or competitive) shooting.
 This is why (after the conversion to be able to fire at 50 yards) N-SSA lads often substitute finer notches or even slip in a small  "peep sight" aperature (or some even have the adjustable aperpature disks on their shooting glasses).

 In my heresies, having done both, I urge all lads to experience a little live fire with Period cartridges for the "historical experience" and "feel."

 In the N-SSA World, to be competitive (read as winning some group and individual medals) my custom built late version M1855 Rifle Musket shot best with a 375 grain semi-wad cuter bullet and 36 grains of FFF.  Benched, it would fire a quarter size group at 50 yards.
 In the Living History World, that is apples and oranges and totally unrelated to Civil War emulation or experience.

 As shared, in addition to the quality of the Italian repro barrels and sights... many muzzleloading New Shooters often shoot high at even the set ranges of the sight due to a tendency to pull the gun instead of the squeezing the trigger.  That and the "recoil" tends to make some lads shoot higher than the POI (Point of Aim).
 Some lads shoot rifles and musketoons more accurately because they can "man handle" the smaller gun better than a longer one.

 I also did live fire, competitive artillery, with three years on an original 1862 3 inch Ordnance Rifle.  That is "fun," too.

 Curt

Curt,

Out of curiosity, do you need to season a cannon barrel? I would think so. Since the one you used was an original, I would say it was plenty seasoned.

In NSSA, are you allowed to use a non-period stance (ie, not from the manual, Casey’s or Hardee’s)? I know when we shoot BP competitively; we lock our elbow in tight to the body with hand as near the trigger guard as possible throwing our front hip out to balance.

Christopher
The “I only wish I could shoot BP as well as my kids” mess.

  Hallo!

 Curt,

"Out of curiosity, do you need to season a cannon barrel? I would think so. Since the one you used was an original, I would say it was plenty seasoned."

 A controversial subject with supporters and detractors.  I am a supporter.  As with cast iron cookware, it "works."  I clean my guns with water only, and since then it only takes about five minutes and 4-5 patches to clean and and dry bore.
 We did not shoot the cannon with lube, but cleaned it with water.

 We were not "competitive" in competition.  The original 1862 tube had uneven wear and the gun's owner did not want to pay for a more fitted or "Minie" type projectile.  So we used a three (3) inch fishing net weight mold to cast an undersized ball that bounced, skipped, and danced down the uneven rifled bore as well as randomly bounced, skipped, and danced down range.
 Compared to the guns made out of modern M4 Sherman tank 90mm barrels with multi groove rifling sharp enough to cut one's fingers on- we were (to make a bad N-SSA pun) hopelessly "outclassed."

"In NSSA, are you allowed to use a non-period stance (ie, not from the manual, Casey’s or Hardee’s)? I know when we shoot BP competitively; we lock our elbow in tight to the body with hand as near the trigger guard as possible throwing our front hip out to balance."

 In brief and to over-generalize, and while there are lads who do shoot in the manner of the Civil War soldier, the NUG N-SSA lad is a modern shooter in CW costume.  There is no requirement for a period stance, and each lad can shoot as he sees fit.  Yes, some lads use a modern military stance even down to the "M1 sling wrap"  and with the weight over the rear leg, the arm and elbow down braced on the ribs, and gun held under the trigger guard or just in front.  Etc., etc.
 It is more about the competitive shooting than anything much the Civil War.

 Curt

Quote :

Curt Schmidt wrote :   In brief and to over-generalize, and while there are lads who do shoot in the manner of the Civil War soldier, the NUG N-SSA lad is a modern shooter in CW costume.  There is no requirement for a period stance, and each lad can shoot as he sees fit.  Yes, some lads use a modern military stance even down to the "M1 sling wrap"  and with the weight over the rear leg, the arm and elbow down braced on the ribs, and gun held under the trigger guard or just in front.  Etc., etc.   Curt

Funny, based on my limited experience, I sorta doubt that actual Civil War soldiers bothered much about getting into a proper stance before firing. (At least after that first volley.) The front rank man is going to want to step back with his right foot for better balance and to absorb the recoil. (Try shooting a rifle musket with your right instep tucked into the heel of your left foot!)

I'm not suggesting we deviate from the manuals, when firing from the ranks, at reenactments. Proper alignment is a major safety concern. I'm just saying the old boys had different issues!

I live fire my Springfield to the tune of about 50-100 rounds a year.  I have a 50 acre farm and a man sized wooden target in the back and it is just fun to hear the rounds chewing up the wood at 100 yards.

I do it once a year, have a blast. and then clean the daylights out of the thing.

Never had a problem with "rings".

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Bob 125th NYSVI wrote : It is just fun to hear the rounds chewing up the wood at 100 yards.

Bob,

That "WACK" when the round hits the target is scary isn't it!
It's amazing what a Minnie bullet will do to a 4 X 4 post.

Bill

I shoot at a steel plate with a catcher to recycle lead. What is really cool is when you are lightening loads for accuracy. At 100 yds. you  hear BOOM…….clink!