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John P. Maranto wrote in the Camp Gossip/Living History thread: I have always wondered what people think is more important, knowing the subject matter real well or having the best, most accurate equipment money can buy?  But that is for another thread!

Ask and ye shall receive.

I'll even go ahead and give my two cents worth. To me, they're not mutually exclusive. A good well rounded impression needs three things a knowledge of what one's going to be doing and talking about, the best gear they can get, and the most important factor is a progressive attitude.  In other words, knowing what's wrong with your impression and be willing to work on it whether it's knowledge or kit.

Linda.

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Linda Trent wrote : I'll even go ahead and give my two cents worth. To me, they're not mutually exclusive. A good well rounded impression needs three things a knowledge of what one's going to be doing and talking about, the best gear they can get, and the most important factor is a progressive attitude.  In other words, knowing what's wrong with your impression and be willing to work on it whether it's knowledge or kit.

Ms. Trent, thanks for starting this thread!  I certainly was not hinting at it...

I agree about what "a good well rounded impression" requires, but am unsure that "the best gear" is as important as your other two factors.  I am not saying that one should wear jeans and a heavy metal t-shirt and pretend that is period correct, but some of the more "progressive" items go well beyond a level of authenticity that matters to the average eye.  Let's take the 8 rivet scabbard as an example.  Does it hurt an impression when most of us don't even look at the scabbard closely enough to count the scabbards?  I think much of the higher-end equipment out there caters to our need to feel more authentic.  If a piece is machine sewn when it should have been hand sewn, are we doing a disservice to the men and women we are trying to honor?

I think that the knowledge and attitude of the reenactor is much more important than the equipment (...within reason).  I have seen well equipped people give horrible and inaccurate talks.  I feel they have done more damage with their words and lack of knowledge than good with their 100% accurate equipment.  Sometimes, I feel that our hobby puts too much emphasis on the equipment hanging on one's body and too little emphasis on the equipment on top of one's shoulders!

Just my 2 cents and not an attempt at starting a fight!!  

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firstmdes wrote :  Let's take the 8 rivet scabbard as an example.  Does it hurt an impression when most of us don't even look at the scabbard closely enough to count the scabbards?  I think much of the higher-end equipment out there caters to our need to feel more authentic.  If a piece is machine sewn when it should have been hand sewn, are we doing a disservice to the men and women we are trying to honor?

First, I agree that it's the totality of an impression that's most important, and putting effort into better gear at the expense of knowledge isn't an advantage.

However, I don't think that better gear is unimportant when interacting with spectators either. Here's an anecdote.

I was at an event at Harper's Ferry, portraying a private with a borrowed rifle, and my knowledge of defarbing muskets is so slim that I had no idea how accurate it actually was.

A spectator came up, typical father with kids, and one of the first questions he asked was to look at the stamping on my rifle. I turned it so he could see the marks. He peered at them, nodded, pointed them out to somebody with him, and then we had a long discussion about things mostly having nothing to do with rifles, since I was there to guard and interpret the surgeon's office.

But apparently, he was pleased with what he saw on the rifle, and that was important to him, because it turned out he was some sort of curator of original rifles.

I think some of the best spectators check out things in their specialty, see if they're right, and use that to decide if it's worth pursuing a conversation on topics they don't know about. That's not to say that every detail must be correct in order to interpret the past, because there is no "100% accurate equipment." But it's one way that more accurate equipment can help with public interpretation, and not just for its own sake. Though if a reenactor's attitude is important, I'd say "the need to feel more authentic" is part of that attitude also.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

As a general rule I vote knowledge over kit.  For one thing, if you have the knowledge, you'll chose a better kit.  For another, someone with knowledge but kit deficiencies can still explain to a spectator what the ideal would be, while someone without knowledge but with an excellent kit may be in essence no more than an ambulatory mannikin.

Still, sometimes the two are inextricably intertwined.  When I talk about period writing with other reenactors who've tried and had problems with dip pens, I often find they've made the attempt with India ink and an inadequate pen.  In that case the proper kit -- nice nib, oak gall ink -- leads directly to acquiring the knowledge ("I can write!").  

And the discovery that rottenstone works better than Brasso was one that I will always treasure  

I guess that means that I agree, more or less, with all the previous posts.

I definitely agree with Linda & Hank's comments. Attitude; knowledge & understanding; clothes, equipment & material goods all matter equally and each impact the others. The proper attitude creates a desire to improve, to better one's self, to increase one's knowledge and to gain better understanding. In doing so, inherently, the drive for higher accuracy increases.
From the other end of the coin, all of these things matter far more than most of us realize in what it is the general public hears, sees, smells, feels, etc. Hank made a perfectly good point about the need to be mindful of even the smallest details. You just don't know who it is you might be addressing and what their level of knowledge. My wife and I have done a number of programs for the National Museum of Civil War Medicine in Frederick, MD on the subject of the U.S. Sanitary Commission. It has always been well advertised and very well attended by a wide variety of folks with a strong interest in things medical. We've had all manner of health-care professionals and military medical personnel in the audience and the questions and comments can be of a fairly high level. We need to know and understand our subject, but we also need to be equally as attentive to the material aspects of those items we present/display as the professional eye can be quite critical.
A good attitude and a solid commitment are necessary to build the knowledge and understanding that leads to the attention to detail in the material aspects. All, as stated elsewhere, are intertwined. It all matters very much.

It's all, also, a lengthy process that we continually build on. As well, working together with other like-minded individuals helps in a variety of ways. None of us knows what all of us know and none of us can accomplish what all of us can accomplish.
Respectfully,
Bob  

--Last edited by BobWerner on 2008-07-21 15:44:43 --

When you are talking to Joe average, he'll respect your knowledge more than anything, he doesn't know boo pee about your kit. However, don't ever lie to him about anything. If he asks about your kit tell him the truth. If you don't know something about a date, time or an event, tell him the truth; usually there's someone near who can answer his question. Because, inveritably if you lie to Joe, there's someone who knows standing near Joe and you're compromised. And our integrity is our best asset.

Did I ever mention the story I got from an artillary man from in front of the Earwax museum in Gettysburg. Paraphrasing; How many men slept in an "A" tent, two. And, they carried all of their tents on their limber chests and cassions. How many men in a battery? 4 guns and about 110 men. He wasn't convincing me you could carry 55 common tents on the guns and chests, no matter how they were stored. He didn't know I wasn't Joe average and he made himself and his unit look really bad, in front of waht was a bunch of real Joe average toristas'.

"If you never lie then; you never have to worry about what you said."

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GrumpyDave wrote : However, don't ever lie to him about anything. If he asks about your kit tell him the truth. If you don't know something about a date, time or an event, tell him the truth; usually there's someone near who can answer his question. Because, inveritably if you lie to Joe, there's someone who knows standing near Joe and you're compromised. And our integrity is our best asset.

Absolutely! I wish more would get that through their heads. Way too many fact-turds getting dished out to the public.
Excellent point!
Respectfully,
Bob

This is the classic "faith vs good works" discussion, and, IMHO, a combination of both is necessary.

It really is a combination, this is sort of deja vieu all over again (sorry Yogi) since this topic seems to come up regularly. I have always been a proponent of a balanced approach to reenacting and interpretation. A good kit is important but is also the easy part since all it takes is $$ or a good loaner box, the attitude and knowledge are more difficult since it really takes effort of the individual beyond showing up with their kit and falling in to a line of like dressd folks. This hobby like any should always start with research first and figure out what is necessary. I wouldn't start to restore a classic car without at least a rudimentary understanding of how it goes together or without any mechanical knowledge whatsoever; likewise you should do the rudimentary research before falling in.

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John P. Maranto wrote in the Camp Gossip/Living History thread: I have always wondered what people think is more important, knowing the subject matter real well or having the best, most accurate equipment money can buy?  But that is for another thread!

I may be jumping on the bandwagon by saying it is a combination of both.  

I look back over my 9-10yrs of doing this hobby and realize that in the begininng, I was more out there to burn powder and camp out, and was lucky if I really knew any of the drill.  

Then I did something that I now tell any new members and such to do.. I opened a book.  I began to look at the pictures, I began to read more.  Sometimes it was a historical fiction, sometimes it was an actual account, sometimes it was an article in a trade magazine (CWTI, ACW, CWH).

With that, I found that my knowledge improved and so then did my impression.  I changed units and they helped me to begin improving my kit.  But with the kit, I tried to improve my bearing as a soldier.. I worked on the drill, read the manual.  Learned my role as an NCO..

I think it that when used together, knowledge and kit will create a positive cycle, as you gain more knowledge, you can find an area of improvement in yourself.  

Like Dave said below, I think about my answer before I talk to someone because I want to make sure I am giving an answer that is correct.  And typically when I do, I may give the reference where I read it.

At an event I was talking with a spectator who said the Federals were always better dressed than the confederates.  But I gave him an example from a "Civil War Day by Day" type book.  It reference an account by an IL regiment as they marched through Memphis TN.  How they were quite ragged but their resupply was waiting on the other side of town.  

I think an important determinant in the issue of "knowledge over kit, or visa versa" is of whom you are speaking.

If you are speaking of most spectators, they will not know the significance between a two rivet bayonet scabbard and a seven rivet.  Such detail will be meaningless to them.  The fact that you have one at all the important thing.  The exception is the fellow that Hank refers to, who has specific knowledge and uses that to determine whether any conversation with you might be of benefit to him.

If you are speaking of reenactors, their knowledge level will almost always be reflected in their kit, in that a higher level of knowledge will see efforts to become more accurately equipped above the typical sutler row level of Pakistani/Indian and stainless steel gear.

I can give an excellent informative and entertaining discussion to spectators in poorer quality gear and come across as knowledgeable and competent, if the gear maintains a certain minimal level of believability.

If I wear the absolute best kit available, I may entice people to approach me, but I will lose them by demonstrating that I don't know what I'm talking about.

With other reenactors, the combination of the two is more critical once you move above the bottom levels of accuracy in both catagories.

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GrumpyDave wrote : When you are talking to Joe average, he'll respect your knowledge more than anything, he doesn't know boo pee about your kit. However, don't ever lie to him about anything. If he asks about your kit tell him the truth. If you don't know something about a date, time or an event, tell him the truth; usually there's someone near who can answer his question. Because, inveritably if you lie to Joe, there's someone who knows standing near Joe and you're compromised. And our integrity is our best asset. "If you never lie then; you never have to worry about what you said."

Dave

I had this running through my head this weekend as I was doing the presentations to the spectators who came through the encampment we had setup.  

It made me choose my words carefully.

Also at the same time, it made me step back from the camp setup we had and try to look at it from a spectators perspective to see what might mislead them.

Thanks.