Back during the days of college hazing it was sophomores who were the nemesis of the incoming freshman class.  The sophomores dealt freshman fits, a whole lot more than juniors or seniors.  Along those same lines, I wonder would the c/p/h reenactor who has just recently made the break from mainstream be the most critical of his former acquaintances?

My curiosity is tweaked when reading mainstream is less, is deficient, doesn’t come up to standards, or similar such statements pointing out a scarcity of some salient feature.  This curiosity of mine would most likely be categorized as a mainstream curiosity.  Since I am mainstream, my curiosity would be a mainstream specimen.  Hmmm?  Do you suspect a mainstream curiosity would be less inquisitive than the c/p/h version?  No doubt, there would be another round of discussion about a dearth of something or other.  No matter.  This lesser curiosity of mine is intrigued by the concept of all mainstreamers sharing an unquestionable shortage of correctness.  It seems their primary characteristic is their deficiency.

I’m going to an event this weekend.  I get the notion my energies should be channeled into being mediocre, making a perversion of history, insulting ancestors, and, generally fulfilling my role as a mainstream reenactor.

Quote :

GrumpyDave wrote : I'll add this. I haven't met the person, who didn't have a "good time" coming from the mainstream over to a C/P/H event, for the first time.

Grumpy,

Not everybody is ready for immersion!  



 

As much as I enjoy participating in mainstream events, I will have to say that I have seen some participants that do not even try at making an effort at authenticity. In fact, just last week I've had someone ask me how to join a unit, and it became apparent to me that this fellow just wants to burn powder, and nothing more.

Now, putting on my park ranger hat, I'm happy to say that the units my park has invited to participate in our Allatoona Pass activities has really stepped up to the plate in regards to uniform standards, knowledge of drill, and the ability to educate site visitors. This is coming from a unit that most would consider mainstream.

I've got alot of room for improvement for my impression. Now that my site has officially taken over operations of the Allatoona Battlefield, I'm striving to really present an 1864 appearance for a Union and Confederate soldier. As far as participating in mainstream events, my new unit is an engineer unit, so I'm doing my homework on Civil War engineer troops.

Roy Queen

Quote :

GrumpyDave wrote : I'll add this. I haven't met the person, who didn't have a "good time" coming from the mainstream over to a C/P/H event, for the first time. "We" do not eat our dead or, pee on our buttons or, pee on our dead buttons. And, sometimes, there's pie.

Well, I'll say that I've met some civilians who tried it, did perfectly well and would have been welcomed back, but didn't like it, and went back to mainstream. I think they just didn't like the constant focus on the past or, from their perspective I suppose, the suffocating limitations on what they could do. When you're used to shopping at the sutlers, returning to the car or leaving to go out to dinner, snapping pictures from the best vantage point, socializing with everyone on both sides, etc., it must seem very restricting and even boring to avoid hostile soldiers, hide when bullets are flying, stay within the designated perimeters of "186x" and pretend to like or dislike people who in real life are strangers, friends, or enemies. And there's also the expectation that they had to do without their modern conveniences and psychological comfort items for what probably seemed like no apparent reason, since they were perfectly acceptable at other events.

Then there are of course many others who took to it immediately and keep coming back. The old saying seems to apply, "If you like this kind of thing, this is the kind of thing you'll like."

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

I think the other major factor that keeps us apart is the lack of events that can pull different sides toghter. The old Warlock mega events did a decent job of that in its on way. Of course those had problems, lots of problems. One of those would be hard at best to come close to now. But, I remember at least 2 of those events which helped push me over the edge as it were to the CPH side. Lee vs Grant and the 140th of Sharpsburg. Both had large CPH sub events that I was able to be involved in and at Sharbsburg(from what I hear) was the only scenrio that wasn't horrible.
My point is over the last few years the kind of events has split the sides more than anything. Of course the  Sep. Storm type events that Anders is putting on is causing quite a buzz. But, the real issue is the lack of events that are large enough for a bunch of cowboys to fit into(no pun). This is in another folder and I wan't waste in more space in this one but I think the two are connected in a way.

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Bill wrote :   I don't want to put words in Chris' mouth, but I understand where his friends are coming from. Nobody wants to be told they are somehow inferior because they aren't members of the "right" units or are attending the "wrong" events.

Totally agree with you. To take a specific classic example, the hidden cooler, let's say a reenactor is in a unit where semi-hidden coolers are allowed, although he knows that the real Civil War soldiers didn't have coolers.

A cph reenactor walks by and say, "You farb. Your cooler spits on the sacrifices of my ancestors. Hidden coolers aren't allowed in my unit."

And of course, the cooler guy is going to vow right then and there never to associate with the cph guy or his unit, because of the rudeness. That's perfectly understandable.

But if the cooler guy and his unit do want to increase their accuracy, they don't need to join the cph guy's unit to decide to get rid of their coolers and eat period unrefrigerated rations. So what the cph guy said is irrelevant, as far as their unit's decision to improve or not.

I'm wondering though, if what I'm missing is the fact that for most people, the hobby is about belonging to a group and forming relationships with one's modern peers, and group solidarity really is a big deal. If you're doing what everyone else is doing, the satisaction of a sense of belonging, whether it's fitting in with other mainstreamers or cph'ers, is its own reward. Therefore, allowing the cooler becomes intrinsic to "what our friendly unit does" compared to "what those other rude SOB's do," and a sugested ban can be opposed by "we don't want to be like those rude SOB's."

Where I get lost is that for me, my hobby goal is trying to fit in with the people of the 1860s, whether they happen to be present or not. So if I feel that what I'm doing would make me fit in better in the 1860s, I'm willing to risk rejection by other reenactors. So I'm missing that motivation of solidarity, peer pressure, etc. that keeps people together at the same accuracy level, whatever it is.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Quote :

hanktrent wrote :   But if the cooler guy and his unit do want to increase their accuracy, they don't need to join the cph guy's unit to decide to get rid of their coolers and eat period unrefrigerated rations. So what the cph guy said is irrelevant, as far as their unit's decision to improve or not.

Hank,

An awful lot of this goes back to what the individual and his pards want from the Hobby. It may well be that one of their major joys is sitting around the campfire at night with a couple of cold brews, while they shoot the bull with their friends. They may well want to improve their drill or their personal impressions, but the last thing they'd get rid of is their coolers. And yeah, one of the conversations around that campfire might well be the Farbs in the next camp, who don't drill worth a hoot! The difference is, they aren't as likely to get on a computer and complain about the guys who don't drill as well as they do. (Something about glass houses and throwing stones.)

As an aside, I rarely take persishable food to Mainstream events. It takes up valuable space in my cooler!  

Quote :

Curtis Makamson wrote : A comparison can be made of the mainstream, campaign, progressive, hardcore entities in this Civil War reenactment hobby to Christian denominations.

Yup, some practice sprinkling while others believe in immersion.   Don't tell me you didn't see that one coming a mile away.  

Linda Trent
sorry, I just couldn't resist.  

I'll add also that for all those too old or too feeble to do the c/p/h events, there's always going civilian!  We're not just authenticists who look pretty anymore.

We just had the 1864 trial event where we had two defendants tried jointly for murder.  We had a judge, a jury, lawyers for both sides, witnesses, sheriff, bailiff, and the rest of us ran the inn (cooking, cleaning, tending to the guests needs, running the bar, etc, etc.).  Nicky Hughes took photographs AFTER the event ended and I just got them up on the event page. http://cw186165.homestead.com/eventindex.html scroll down to the bottom and there are three pages of photographs.

We had Struggle for Statehood http://struggleforstatehood.homestead.com/ where the citizens had to care for period correct livestock; slaughter, butcher up, and cook a pig for the army; we built a log hut before the event that needed to be finished (roofing, chinking and daubing...); and all sorts of things.  

We had the 1857 Camping Trip http://1857hockingtrip.homestead.com/index.html in a National Forest where we had studied botany, Indians, and a number of other things (only three people did this one), and the C&O canal hike (well, two people did that one), a nitre works employee at Selma collecting real urine, and a number of other really cool things.  It's not always about just saying we're someone -- it's actually studying up and portraying that someone preferably at work or doing something that is specific to what he/she would be doing at that particular time and place.

And just this past weekend we did an 1888 veterans returning to Gettysburg.  Granted it was more upscale, but we did have a carriage ride to the 8th Ohio's monument, then walked that the 12th NJ's monument, we had a period picnic, walked back to our "hotel" (bed and breakfast), had some period reading of poetry, walked back out to the cemetery and walked around looking at all the graves, took pictures of one another with our reproduction 1888 Kodak camera (came out spring of 1888), and sung songs in the parlor and all sorts of things.  The fellas all studied up on their companies and were able to carry on a wonderful discussion of where they were and what happened when, etc...  So much fun stuff right in the heart of historic Gettysburg with cars and modern people and all that sort of stuff.  But it worked because everyone kept focused on what our goals for the event were.

As I said, civilians don't just unwrap sandwiches anymore.  We have male and female, the trial wound up with about 2/3 of the participants being men! We're always looking for new blood, and new ideas for events.

As I said before on this forum: Now-a-days, we have yahoogroups for each specific event.  These allow for the organizer to quickly share all the updates and such in a quick and easy fashion.  It also allows for participants to find out who's coming and is a great tool for fellowshipping, mentoring, sharing of event specific research, and all sorts of things.  Events are set up so that people are most likely to succeed at what they do.  We know who the new people are and try to encourage them to participate in conversations and such, while at the same time never trying to trip them up or make them look like fools.  

We've had really new people come over to the dark side and they blend in so much that we never think to ourselves -- oh, there's that new person. It's amazing how well people do if they just allow themselves the chance to get caught up in the spirit.

Linda Trent
lindatrent@zoomnet.net  

--Last edited by Linda Trent on 2007-09-28 22:00:00 --

Chris said:

Quote :

I think the other major factor that keeps us apart is the lack of events that can pull different sides together.

In other words "bridging"?  I really dislike that word.  I agree with Hank.  A group does not make the person.  But people do want to be in groups.  Finding like groups and fitting in comfortably is a natural desire.  You may have to try a few to find what you want, but you also have to decide what it is you want to do.  Are you going to improve your impression because you want to or are you improving it to for others?  If it is the latter, then you are probably going to the wrong events.  

Getting  back to Chris' quote; trying to pull vastly different groups together for an event just to create harmony just won't happen.  I've attended such events and the different groups usually hang together or are off alone.  It's a nice thought, but doubt it will ever happen.  

--Last edited by Ken Cornett on 2007-09-28 22:17:14 --

To add to what Ken stated. As a fence sitter I enjoy both ends of the hobby. There are many like me and Bill who do both authentic and mainstream events. I joined my second group (the Armory Guards) a few months ago after working with them at events for about a year since their mindset was very close to mine. This gives me the opportunity to be with them when I want a more immersive or authentic type event but I remain loyal to the 8th FL / 13th IN as well as I also enjoy the more relaxed mainstream events as well events as well. I think there are probably more like me than many realize or are willing to admit.

Forum CPHers are rude not all but they say with words on the forum what they won't say at an event. I know I've talk to a few and they seem nice, the ones that post on the various forums at times  show little or no manners, RUDE did I say RUDE.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky  

--Last edited by Bill on 2007-11-06 10:25:27 --

http://sipleymess.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=88888920

Worth re-reading from time to time.

Quote :

captdougofky wrote : Forum CPHers are rude not all but they say with words on the forum what they won't say at an event. I know I've talk to a few and they seem nice, the ones that post on the various forums at times  show little or no manners, RUDE did I say RUDE.

Rudeness, both on the forums and in the field, is not exclusive to the CPH wing of the hobby; I've run into enough of it in the mainstream.  The same can be said about jealousy, short-temperedness, bull-headedness, and any of another dozen or so unpleasant behaviors.

Becoming a reenactor does not, unfortunately, remove all the flaws and shortcomings of supposedly "normal" people.  My guess is that if one is pissy in real life, he/she will be pissy as a reenactor.

I've also discovered that, quite often, what I initially take to be an offensive post, if re-read a number of times and placed in the context of other posts the person has made in the past, turns out to be nothing of the kind.  Such caution has kept me from making angry posts in response on several occasions, which in the end would have made me look even more foolish than how I perceived the original "offender".

I also try to keep in mind that offense cannot be taken if it is not accepted.  But then, I am an exceptional human being, capable of such high and honorable precepts.  

EBUFU is nothing more than reenacting without the added concerns of spectators, vendors, etc, with an idea of being more "soldier-like" over the couse of the event than seen during most reenactments. Having survived such events, I've yet to detect any evil intent or detrimental after-effects.  

--Last edited by Bill on 2007-11-06 10:25:54 --

As Doug said, there are some rude CPHer's on the Forums, but as Bernie pointed out, there is no shortage of rude Mainstreamers and Fence Sitters floating around in cyber space.

The only reason for the Common Ground's existance is to allow the various factions within the Hobby to discuss their issues in a civilized manner. Oh yeah, and maybe learn something and have a little fun in the process.  

The bad thing and sad thing here is that keyboard reenacting allows others to develop an image of someone (that you've never met)based on how their attitude is presented on line.  I've met people from the forums at events, who I thought I would never like and I do.  Words can be so damning sometimes, but not always meant.

My advice is to think about what you say when you say it.  Proving points without documented facts can escalate into forum wars.  Everyone has an opinion and that can be dangerous if you aren't careful.

This is the Common Ground where the land of arguements and attitudes will forever be shot down by first rate moderators.  

Let's take it easy and enjoy learning from each other.