I'm mainstream and always will be. We as a group what do we bring to the table of the reenacting hobby. We as a group know what we do wrong. One only has to read postings by some to know we can never reach their level. They can point and preach, but we won't change. Our camps will always have kids and coolers. We will camp with cast iron. Coffee pots big enough for the whole crew. We don't need shade, we bring our own. Flys for us don't have wings but tent stakes. Uniforms that we get on sale are the talk of the campfire. Not who made it but what little we had to spend. No one has to point out or faults. What we do is close enough. Our chairs are made for comfort if not will buy one that is. Plenty room in the back of the truck. Yes we have our faults by some standards but what do we do right. I do Artillery, always have always will. We don't march never have never will. On the feild we do a fine job. Safety wise and other wise. You the mainstream folks like me what do you think you do right to help the hobby.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky

Tossing in the  Man, Methods, Materials triptych into the question of what mainstreamers bring to the table, it would seem some units bring diverse amounts of these three   Some concentrate on one, or perhaps two, while ignoring the other.

Speaking of my unit, our kit would pass muster at most any level of event.  Yeah, I know.  It’s not about the gear.  Well, if the gear sucks it jolly well needs to be about the gear until the puckering and inhaling stops.  Our unit Materials are OK.  

The unit’s overall attitude is OK.  We know where we are as far as m/c/p/h is concerned.  We are open to research driven information and adapt to it.  We are extremely tolerant with new people but have stricter expectations for veteran members.  The Man part is satisfactory.  Sure, it could be better.  Whose couldn‘t?  But, by and large, it also is OK.

The weakest area is Methods.  This is caused by a combination of age, infirmities, and a seemingly unbreakable cycle of starting over with each new person.  However, that starting over cycle is not really a complaint.  We still accept youngsters.  They are made technically competent and they enjoy the hobby while they can.  Education, occupation, marriage, and other such life related realities will be competing with this hobby soon enough.

What do you bring to the hobby?  My unit has a smooth transition that brings people into the hobby and fairly quickly has them operating at a high level of competence.  When another new one comes along, in a matter of speaking, we all start over with them.  There is this group of veteran reenactors starting over with the newby.  What do we bring to the table?  We are a “starter unit.”  Our specialty is bringing them into the hobby.  If they choose to leave us for another of the hobby’s categories all they need will be the Methods required of that level.  My unit will already have provided them with the other two.

Curtis

I have trained a lot of different members some who formed their own Batterys and some who have gone to different branches. That may be may biggest thing I've done for the hobby.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Batterys CS
Kentucky

In a word, the one thing the Mainstream brings to the Hobby is numbers. There would be no events with over about 300 people without Mainstreamers participating. Many of the high quality vendors couldn't afford to stay in business without Mainstreamers buying their goods. Euroarms and Armi-Sport would go out of business if Mainstreamers weren't buying their weapons. Mainstreamers have contributed 100's of thousands of dollars to Battlefield Preservation. In fact, Mainstream units have contributed many of the folks in the CPH branch of the Hobby. For better or worse, far more spectators are exposed to the Civil War by Mainstreamers, again because of the number of Mainstream events held every season.  

Mainstream is needed.  Most everyone starts there and stays there.  Education is taught at a broad, but much needed level. Besides, we CPHers started mainstream.  However, we don't often teach to the public like the mainstreamers do.  That's one part I do miss.

Maybe another question can be "What can we bring to the table?"

One of the answers to that would be to (on the battlefield, at least) look, act, and be a soldier of our period. Know the drill/s, practice them at every event, and act the part on the field. We all know mainstream camping is a far cry from the real thing, but we can do our best and bring realism on and to the battlefield.

Being incorrect in camp is one thing, but I don't see any real good excuse for being "incorrect" on the field of battle.

Lots of mainstream troops are top notch in that area.

I agree with Bill above about the numbers issue.

On another note along the education idea, there are plenty of knowledgable people in the MS arena.  I know a few years back there was all the talk about who is what... and someone mentioned people who do the N-SSA activities.  These are guys who are very versed in the weapons, but their kit may not be totally accurate.  You can learn a lot from them on the rifles and guns and such, but you may not go to them about details on uniforms.

Like Ken said, the information you might get at a MS event may be more general and covers the basic topics from equipment - battles - rations.. etc..  

I know that I might not be able to tell you the difference between a Schukyll Aresenal Jacket and a JT Martin coat.. bit I can tell the difference between a sack coat and a frock, and a shell jacket.  And that will help me with a spectator and then I can point them to someone who can give them more details if they want that.

One things I learned in college is that you don't need to memorize all the facts, but just be able to know where to find them when asked.

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lhsnj wrote : One things I learned in college is that you don't need to memorize all the facts, but just be able to know where to find them when asked.

When talking to folks there is no crime in saying those magic words, "I don't know". There is nothing worse that some guy making up stuff, as he goes along, just because he feels he has to answer every question. It also doesn't hurt to say, "This is my opinion, and other folks may have different ideas". Talking about what happened 145 years ago is not a perfect science!  

well... i bring young willing children who love learning.  my children talk to other children about it and those children ask me about it. they learn history that way. i learn history that way (never was much into history... go figure).

i try to be accurate. my dhs uniform is mainstream with a few of my upgrades. the only reason its a mainstream uniform is because he only goes for the kids and i. there are events he wont go to because its too much into it, as he says. i wasnt going to spend a lot of money on his uniform though because i didnt know if he would continue or not.  he is actually starting into looking at portraying other people... such as a pastor... but then he cant use his rifle.. and he wont admit it but he does enjoy the battles. and hes also one that doesnt want to march... he says he did enough of that in bootcamp

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I know that I might not be able to tell you the difference between a Schukyll Aresenal Jacket and a JT Martin coat..

Greg, I'd bet anything real Civil War soldiers couldn't tell the difference.  Better yet, I say they didn't care or didn't know about such things.  They might have referred to them as a short coat or a long coat or simply a coat.  However, an upity soldier might of had some notion   .

-A large amount of preservation $
-$ that keep sutlers all over the country in business
-A place for famalies to do something TOGETHER
-Public awareness, yes, the CW happpened.

Quote :

Bill wrote :   When talking to folks there is no crime in saying those magic words, "I don't know". There is nothing worse that some guy making up stuff, as he goes along, just because he feels he has to answer every question. It also doesn't hurt to say, "This is my opinion, and other folks may have different ideas". Talking about what happened 145 years ago is not a perfect science!

Bill that is something that we say to the newer members of the unit.  If you don't know an answer, then it is ok to say "I don't know but I can find out.. or let me bring you to someone who might"  

Ken, you may be right, and I am sure they were happy to have whatever they were issued..

BAttalion and Brigade evolutions....on the drill or battlefield. Most units (not leaders) know how to fight, skirmish, reenact a scenario, take casualties.

Not much difference in battle tactics/presentation between the hobbies.....was a shock to me to see close distances between opposing forces, not a lot of casualties from firing despite troops standing out in the open, troops burning through their basic ammo aupply in less than an hour, and leaders yelling out to their opponents that they should take more casualties....at Outpost.

Buglers, Fifers, Drummers, Bandsman, Drum Majors, Principal Musicians.

Battlefield communications for large units.

Research.

Horses.

and of course.....Numbers.....pretty disappointing to not have any artillery at Outpost/TAG for example.

We bring the next generation of reenactors.

First, let me say that my unit can be considered primarily a mainstream unit.  We do have events and drills where it is men only and no tents, just what is packed by horse.  Those events are getting rarer for us as the group ages.  When it comes to drill and history of the unit, we have no rivals.  That is because we work at it at more than just the events.  As a cavalry unit it takes a lot of wok to get the horses as well as the men to work as one unit.

I have four sons.  For the first two, the hobby was mine.  I went and did my thing and they would go see it on occasion.  They have no interest in joining the hobby.  When I remarried, I found a woman who shared my passion and she wanted to attend.  She would set up in the civilian camp.  She still does depending on event.  Our two younger sons have grown up in the hobby.  All four of our sons can ride very well.

By having the two younger boys in camp, they learned and have the same passion for the hobby.  When it is a “guys only” weekend, they are crushed!  My 15 year old is now old enough to be included in that circle.  He drills with us.  He rides with us.  He is just not old enough to carry a firearm.  That will come.  I would put his knowledge of cavalry drill, horsemanship and military camp life up against almost any adult.  He knows that it is not all fun and games.  His horse comes first.  He stands to grain.  He pulls watch in the middle of the night to make sure the horses are safe on the picket line.  After riding all day and wants to rest, he knows he has to water his horse, take care of his tack, groom and pick the hooves before he can even think of himself!

My nine year old helps his mother and every adult in camp.  Heck, he wants to wake up to take his watch on the line at night with the horses.

Will either ever go CPH?  Who knows?  I bet they will always be in the hobby.

Regards,

Barry Smithson

Numbers. Other than that?

It depends on how you look at it and who is looking at it Charles.  Friendship, a good time, telling stories, etc., may be what someone wants.  Realism, empathy, deep study, etc. may be what another wants.  The numbers game will always be just that...a game.  But I'm like you, I know what I want in this hobby and I try to go and get it.  What is right or wrong is in the eye of the beholder.  Always will be.

Ken,

When we went through this whole "what does the 'stream contribute to the hobby that the other four elements do not," back in 2001-2002, the sole factor was numbers. Granted, the bottom layer, and the third level also contribute numbers, but quantity has it's own quality. With the fire sale of great gear for pennies on the dollar, the third level has seen amazing growth in the past few years.

Artillery is probably a great example of the waste in the hobby. If we would trade in all the static (i.e., nonfunctional) repop artillery in the hobby (to Sanford & Son, if it would help)for one dozen mounted pieces willing to travel, the hobby would be light years ahead of where it is today.  Of course, that means Dodge would have sold a lot less red pickup trucks.  

Just a thought.

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Charles Heath wrote :When we went through this whole "what does the 'stream contribute to the hobby that the other four elements do not," back in 2001-2002, the sole factor was numbers.

First, who made up the "we" in the above statement?  Depending upon who the "we" is, its conclusion may be valid, maybe not.

Second, it's that last phrase that makes all the difference: "...that the other four elements do not".  That's a totally different question than "What does the mainstream contribute to the hobby."

Quote :

If we would trade in all the static (i.e., nonfunctional) repop artillery in the hobby for one dozen mounted pieces willing to travel, the hobby would be light years ahead of where it is today.

Does this assume that those without horses (Am I correct that this equates to "nonfunctional"?) contribute nothing to the hobby, and that these few, these happy few, will be willing and able to run around the country at call to attend all the events requiring artillery?

Methinks it may not be that simple a solution.

Bernie,

The month the firestorm broke out in earnest was May 2002, and the "we" in this instance would be those who participated in concurrent discussions on the AC, Szabo's, and as the war spread into June and July, the OTB Forum. That was about as comprehensive a spread as I've ever seen. I find it odd we aren't seeing the same thing this time around, but to the great credit of Our Maker, the chief antagonist is deceased.

When people speak of "the mainstream," they often lump in the other two levels at the lower end of the spectrum, and it really is good to break out the farbs and authenticists. For some, the hobby is about numbers, and numbers are what they find satisfying. A certain pagentry exists when 10,000 or more hit the field, and if a fellow squints just right, well, let's not go there.

Artillery is one of those items the hobby has in great excess, no, let me revise that, in extreme excess. Note that I did say "willing to travel." Even within the world of static redlegs one sees a broad spectrum from pipes on implement wheels to scale pieces to groups who take it to a higher level. While I realize this level of thought is hard to comprehend, take a look at how little artillery was available then compared with the overkill at FMA events.  Once in a while, at some scenario like The Hornet's Nest, it is good to have more than a handful, but that is the exception.

Think outside that mainstream box, Bernie. You can do it.

Artillery

Not a red Dodge, but a green ford 350 4x4 crew cab. Thats an evil of Artillery. 6 horse pull don't get your hopes up. There are a few horse drawn units but without static the comment at most events would be. It would be nice if we had a cannon or two. Go online to Cannons Limited or Steen and check out the price. Horse drawn one hope can still hope. Static is the norm, always will be. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ the bottom line.

Always
Doug Thomas
Lyons Battery CS
Kentucky